Athearn Genesis F3s: Worth the investment?

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Greetings,

I’ve had two “non-Genesis” diesels in the past; both RS3s. While the shell was very nice, I was not impressed with the pickup quality and the units rode very poorly. Needless to say I’ve avoided purchasing anything Athearn; primarily for the reasons given above but also because they haven’t really offered anything that I’m interested in or model.

Having said that I am eyeing a Genesis F3 A-B pair because I’d like to create an F3 A-B-A consist with either a Proto or an Intermountain F3. I know folks generally rave about the Genesis Fs because of the detail and their fidelity to the prototype.

What are the pros and cons to Genesis? How are the drives? Are the incandesent lights glued in like they are on all the other Athearn locomotives? (The bulbs in the RS3s were not fun to remove. [%-)]) Any input is appreciate.

Thanks,

Tom

2

Tom, I have one, but I’m not sure the vintage as I bought it on everyone’s favorite online auction site. It is a nice looking, smooth running locomotive, but the sound decoder is atrocious. Haven’t used it much because of that. Waiting until I have the funds to replace it with a TCS. Sorry, I haven’t opened it up yet so can’t tell you how the headlight is fixed into place. Hopefully someone in the know pipes up soon.

3

You probably have one of the ones with the MRC sound decoder. Yea, those were notoriously bad. Either a Loksound or TCS Wow! would be waaaaaay better.

Tom

4

I have tried several Athearn Genesis F units. Yes the bulbs can be glued in and very difficult to remove. Yes, sometimes grills are sloppily applied. If you can examine in person before you buy, that is the way to buy them. Many are nearly perfect but may have one little annoying QA/QC shortcoming…it depends upon how picky you are…personally I prefer recent Proto2000 F units because they are more consistently good looking and for me they run better than Genesis. Other folks do not like the lack of parts support from Walthers and prefer Athearn.

There are beautiful Genesis diesels, and I have good access to multiple units at a good dealer. I tended to reject 2 or 3 for every one truly beautiful model that I found acceptable. Your mileage may vary.

Athearn’s clearcoat over plating is suspect, easily scratched and easily rubbed off with any normal handling. This results in a spotty appearance over time. Walthers’ clearcoat over plated F unit side panels is much much more durable. I was very pleased with the durability of Walthers red warbonnet F unit paint jobs.

5

Tom, as you know I can’t comment on sound or DCC aspects. And I understand some users, especially DCC users, have had issues with the incandesent lamps.

All that said, my two sets of Genesis F units run great, and look great, by far the best in terms of detail. As for quality control issues, I have none - But, to be fair, one of my sets was built by me - undecorated Highliners kits.

The other set, WESTERN MARYLAND, was perfect out of the box, no issues.

I will say without question I consider my Intermountain F units every bit as nice, even if some of the detail is not quite as fine. Only noticeable difference, the LED lighing on the Intermountain is not as nice looking as the incandesents on the Genesis.

So far, running DC, I have had no issues with the Genesis lamps.

I actually have more Intermoutain units than Genesis because the ATLANTIC CENTRAL took a liking to FP7’s…Intermountain has undecorated FP7 kits.

Proto, the unit is very nice detail wise, I have one set in C&O. But I’m not thrilled with the slower gearing…and I sold off an undecorated set because they came with 1960’s modernized shells - I model 1954…Walthers had no “as built” shells to give or sell…

Personally, I don’t think you can go wrong any of those three brands when it comes to F units.

And, again, I will repeat my view. You cannot judge any of these companies based on one or two problematic products.

Those RS units were revised tooling that came from Model Die Casting, they were not made in the same factory as the Genesis F units, one has nothing to do with the other in terms of actual manufacturing.

I would doubt if there is even one common part, except maybe the couplers, between the two.

With all this stuff made by outside venders on the otherside of the globe, brand means very little. Each product, each set of tooling, each Chinese factory stand on its own as either good or bad.

Be

6

I operate my Genesis F3 AB set in a consist with one Intermountain F3A. They are high quality as is the Intermountain F3A.

Definately worth the money in my opinion.

7

I daily handle some motive power…I never know whose children might be coming over. Anything remotely good is not left on the track but is on high shelves. I wash my hands before touching trains to get the oil off my hands, and factory painted brass with the baked on (and probable lead) paint holds up well, as do the Walthers and Intermountain paint jobs. Genesis WP and ATSF plated finishes just did not do as well for me, on the engines I had owned.

I avoid unnecessary handling by using a couple stub sidings.

8

Tom, I have two pairs of newer Athearn Genesis F3s, a pair of Monon F3A units and an Erie F3AB consist. I bought both sets because I needed the road names for my Dearborn Station layout. All four locos have Tsunami sound decoders (TSU-GN1000) that are factory installed.

I had a serious wiring problem with one of the Monon units are few years back. The wires in a never opened unit had melted together and shorted the decoder. Athearn replaced the decoder and I redid the wiring.

I am running a separate thread right now on the Erie F3A loco with a problem decoder. Check that out.

The A units have the same old incandescent lights that are glued into the headlamp housing. With care, the headlights can be removed and replaced with LEDs. I use SMD LEDs.

Performance and pulling power is decent. The shells on the newer F3s are fairly easy to remove.

Rich

9

I own a Athearn Genesis F7 AB set that I bought used for $200 with sound

The decoders are nothing to rave about…just the standard Soundtraxx EMD 567 sounds…

MY A unit had a LOT of issues when first bought. The decoder was faulty, and the pickup was for some reason really poor(probably why the seller sold it). I sent the decoder back, and they gave me yet another faulty decoder, which I sent back YET again, and finally got a working decoder. The lamps on mine burnt out, and I replaced them.

2 really out of the ordinary issues I encountered with my ATH genesis F7A was the following

  1. Poor pickup. My B unit ran perfectly fine but the A inconsistantly lost power roughly every 4 feet of track…which was REALLY annoying. I added 3 4.5v 1F supercapacitors wired in series, and that ended the issue.

  2. The engine would suddenly go out of control(not short circut) randomly on my layout. I actually posted a help forum back then when this happened, which no one responded to. The issue as it turns out, was the wire connecting the two traction motors(name?) on the firemans side of the front truck was somehow creating contact with the metal frame and in some weird way, making the engine go out of control.

My point is, theres a lot work involved in troubleshooting these engines, so be aware of that when buying. Also, you get what you paid for…

On the other hand, the B unit had NONE of the above issues whatsoever…weird…

Conclusion: Once you get past the troubleshooting stage(or if your lucky and get perfect running engines out of the box), these engines are beautiful, and run like a champ! They have superb pulling power, and run very quiet.

My[2c]

Charles

10

The problems that Charles encountered are apparently not all that unusual.

I have a current thread running on the forum about my problems with the Tsunami TSU-GN1000 which is a factory installed version of the TSU-1000 decoder by Athearn. Soundtraxx won’t deal with decoder issues on the Athearn Genesis, sending you back instead to Athearn.

Charles, although no one responde

11

Tom,

I decided to go with a Walthers Proto instead of an Athearn after reading about them and I’m glad I did. Run like a charm right out of the box. I just changed the coupler to a short shank with bellows diapharms. It is a F3A, with a Intermountain powered F3B, Athearn BB F7B ‘‘dummy’’, Athearn BB F7A powered. I just had to remove the ESU decoder with 21 pin plug and insert jumper board that they gave Me. They all run great together on DC. The Proto A is a ‘‘long bonnet’’ though but I didn’t care. Cost for the Proto & Intermountain was under 250.00 so I couldn’t complain about that brand new.

Good Luck, in Your choice! [:D]

Frank

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It is interesting that almost all the problems reported with these locos are electrical, and mostly DCC related…maybe that explains why I have not had any problems…

Sheldon

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That was really my only complaint with my RS3s, Sheldon. They looked great; they just ran poorly.

And I like incandescents. However, I prefer LEDs over incandescents when it comes to headlights; from a longevity standpoint to the directional beam and low heat output.

Also, I began looking at the Stewart F3s last night and may end up going with them. They aren’t as nicely detailed as the Proto 2000 and the Genesis models but they run like champs and they are the only manufacturer that offers the NYC F3s in a “3/4” lightning stripe on the A-unit, which is how the earlier ones were painted when first-released And the B-unit was plain; w/o a lightning stripe.

Tom

14

Sheldon, with no data to back this, I nevertheless challenge your assertion that you have not had any problems. Anybody who has ever built a layout, especially a larger layout, has had problems.

It is true that DCC presents a special problem when it comes to decoders. Most decoders are problem free, but occasionally a problem decoder surfaces. That said, DC is no different than DC when it comes to locomotive wiring, mechanical problems, truck and gear problems, and coupler problems, not to mention specific locomotive design problems.

It’s not DCC that is the problem. It is faulty design by locomotive and decoder manufacturers.

Rich

15

Tom, if you like incandescents, and if you purchase an Athearn Genesis locomotive, just change out the awful Athearn incandescents with Miniatronics incandescents. They last a lot longer.

Rich

16

I too have a pair of RS-3’s, the one has (eventually I will fix it) electrical problems - nothing to do with DCC, it wouldn’t run on DC either, not when there is a problem getting power fromt he wheels to the motor. The other one ran fine out of the box, so for now I just swapped shells.

The shells may trace lineage to the MDC ones (I have several of those kits - which have a Proto FA drive, not Athearn, though MDC offered them both ways), but the drive is a pure Athearn RTR and owes nothing to MDC. Genesis uses a different motor and supposedly finer drive shafts and universals, but it seems they still pick up power the same way, which leaves room for QC issues and the same problem I had with the RS-3. Gone is the old BB metal truck frame being visible, there is now a plastic piece covering the bare metal in the trucks. In my failed RS-3, this is keeping the bronze bushings on the axles from touching the metal part of the truck frame to conduct power into the truck. On one end only. So I know how to fix it.

Genesis problems with DCC are because the earlier ones came with absolute garbage MRC decoders. There is nothing good to say about them. A better decoder and they have no problems with DCC. No decoder and they have no problem with DC. Other than those infernal cheap light bulbs. Inexcusable in that level of a model.

Frankly I’d just get some more Stewart/Bowser ones and lay in a stock of small drills and a few of the dress up kits to add the grabs, handrails, and lift rings. As METAL parts, not plastic. They run very well, DC or DCC, they just don;t have the factory applied detailing of Genesis or Intermountain. Unless you get the Executive Line versions.

–Randy

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As mentioned, Rich, when it comes to headlights I MUCH prefer LEDs. So, if I’m going to remove an incandescent from a locomotive I’m replacing it with an [warm-white] LED. Incandescents I prefer when it comes to a “visible” light source - e.g. a lightbulb inside a lamp shade on a front porch or freighthouse platform.

Tom

18

That’s what I love about the Stewart/Bowser drives, Randy; they have always run well for me. And, I agree, those metal Cal Scale detail kits really dress up the shells quite nicely.

On a slightly different spin of the topic: Do the Genesis F-unit shells still fit on the Stewart chassis? How about the Proto 2000 chassis?

Thanks,

Tom

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Rich, I was simply refering to not having any problems with my 7 Genesis F units. 3 are RTR WESTERN MARYLAND DC versions, 4 are bare DC drives and Highliner body kits, from back when they sold just the drives… All are older production, I have had them all for 8-10 years or longer.

No electrical problens, no mechanical problems, no cosmetic problems with these 7 locos.

My two Athearn RS had cracked gears, just like Proto, but no other issues.

My set of C&O Proto F units have been trouble free as well. Again DC versions.

What has been trouble were two BLI Mikados, two Proto1000 RS units, two BLI Reading T1’s who’s drawbars bound up when close coupled, etc.

And about 50 Proto diesels

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I appreciate all the input, fellas - Thank you! [:D]

FYI: I just picked up a set of early Ph 2 Stewart F3 A-Bs off eBay for a decent price that included S&H. They also come numbered; something that not all Stewart have.

Again, out of curiosity and for future reference: Do the Genesis F-unit shells fit on the Stewart F-unit chassis? How about the Proto 2000 chassis?

Thanks,

Tom