Hello, I’m experiencing derailments with my 4-6-4 J1e Hudson on theses turnouts.
I filed every part of the turnout to have a smooth ride trough but it’s always a 50/50 chance that there will be a derailment.
My diesel locos and cars run trough without a hitch…
I really don’t know what to do anymore; is there another solution to this problem?
Thank you.
I’m sure someone with more experience than myself will chime in, but IMHO I think #4 turnouts are too tight a radius. I’m pretty sure you would need at least #6. I believe the #4’s are only 18" radius. I think I might have one on a siding, but all the rest of mine are at least #6.
I assume that the derailment problems occur on the divergent track, not the straight through route, correct?
If so, the 4-6-4 should be able to negotiate the tight radius curve without derailing, at least if it is run at slower speeds.
The first thing to determine is which part of the steamer is derailing, the pilot truck, the driver wheels, or the trailing truck. My bet is that the pilot truck is the culprit. If so, the typical solution is to add weight to the pilot truck to assist in holding the truck down on the rails.
To add weight, some wrap a length of thin solder around the axle. Others glue or epoxy something like a small piece of lead sheet to the underside of the pilot truck. I prefer the latter.
If it is not the steam engine itself, then you need to look closely at the installation of the turnout. Are the switch rails snug against the stock rails? With steam engines, those pilot trucks are finicky. Any little gap will throw the pilot truck off track, literally.
Rich
Practically every Atlas turnout I have used was bowed up in the middle and had to be bent back flat before installation. This could cause derailments on a rather long, rigid frame steamer. Check your turnout by placing a straight edge such as a wood ruler with the center across the frog and see if the ends can be rocked up and down. If they can, you need to remove the turnout and flatten it.
Another problem with some Atlas turnouts is loose rivets that hold the point rails in place – these can allow the point rail to flop around and widen the turnout’s gauge.
Cacole makes some good points. I have also had to flatten out several Atlas #4s. I also carefully drill out the point rail rivets and replace them with 0-80 brass hex head bolts and nuts. This allows me to make sure that the pivots stay snug and provide good electrical conduct. Some of the newer Atlas turnouts have a different pivot setup that may be better than the older style rivets. I’ve noticed that the Atlas #6s appear to be better constructed than the #4s and I have been gradually replacing my #4s with #6s.
Joe
Have you checked the guage of your front truck? Could be out just enough to throw it off occasionally and not every time. Also check the guage of the track. It may be just a little out.
Good luck,
Richard
I have code 83 #4 turnouts in my yard and noticed they were all “bowed” in the middle. I contacted Atlas and they replied saying that was “normal”. If you have 6 of them connected in a yard and put your head down there and eyeball them it looks like a perpendicular roller coaster. They did say to send them back and they would replace them with more bowed turnouts.
I’d like to hear from the OP once again.
Serge, any update on your problem?
Rich
Hello everyone, sorry for the delay; I had to work saturday.
But this morning after reading (more than once) all of your feedbacks on this issue (which I thank you very much), I went downstairs to my train room, took a magnifying glass and closely inspected all of your pointers. This is what I finally discovered when gliding a ruler in and out different areas of the turnout:
The spacing between the rail and the guardrail was not equal on both sides of the turnout.
I was scratching my head because I was wondering how I was going to be able to measure the gap between the rail and the guardrail. I suddenly remembered seeing my wife using a “micrometer” while creating her jewelry pieces.
So I started by measuring the wheel flange on my rolling stock (boxcars and locos) : an average of .7mm to .8mm in thickness.
Now he comes the interesting part:
The spacing between the rail and the guardrail varies from .7mm to .9mm, so depending at what speed the train is going trough the turnout there’s a 50/50 chance to witness a derailment.
So guess what I’ll be doing for the rest of the day…Filing the guardrail so the flange has enough space to freely go trough the gap on the turnout.
Once again I thank you for all of your comments regarding this issue, they are greatly appreciated [Y]
Have a nice day [;)]
The problem shouldn’t be the guard rail but you can give it a shot. Does the loco derail in both directions or only one? Also run the loco through very slow and watch exactly where it comes off.
At first read, I just assumed the OP meant the stock rail and the point rail.
But the guard rail makes sense if it is pulling the opposite wheel out of the groove between the guard rail and the stock rail.
Rich
I don’t know about your Hudson, but I know about my Atlas #4’s-- I hate them. Patooey! I only have two of them and I used them at the end of a long industrial spur which was only ever used by 40’ boxcars and short wheelbase locomotives. And I had nothing but trouble with them – ever. I tried everything I could think of to make them usable and eventually gave up on 'em. Everything else on my layout was #6, and while I had some issues with stalling, I rarely had problems with derailments unless there was some issue with the wheel gauge.
John
Hello, I’m back with feedback on my sunday afternoon filing job on the turnouts…
Well I’ll be very honest with you, there’s no more derailments BUT I’m not really pleased with the “klink a dee klank” my loco does when going trough the turnouts. I’ts not a smooth ride…
I filed the guardrails; and as mentionned in your comments, I also had to fasten the turnouts in the middle because they were not flat.
Over all I’m not impressed with the No4 turnouts and as suggested by some of you, I’ll probably wind up changing them for No. 6.
Thanks again for your feedbacks on this “turnout issue”.
Have a nice day [;)]
Reading this thread, I’m glad I am using PECO turnouts - they seem pretty well built.
Good idea, Joe. I too have been coping with rivets loosening up on Atlas #4’s, and have been debating for some time as to the most reasonable solution. I have seen the point rails roll away from vertical as the weight of any locomotive runs onto them. Drilling out the rivets on a throw bar that is just barely tucked into a tunnel mouth looks to be another interesting event yet to be experienced!