Atlas Layout Packages

Model Railroader Layouts and layout building
1

Hello,

I am looking for input on Atlas layout packages. I have an 11 year old son that is wanting to build a track, with some help from mom and dad. We thought a layout package would be best. Here is a link to what he has picked out;
https://shop.atlasrr.com/p-44223-ho-23-folded-dog-bone-with-branch.aspx

I am looking for the pro’s and con’s of ordering this set.

*My son has little interest in actually designing his own layout right now. He really want the fun of building and then running several trains, all day.

*We purchased a click together Walthers set a few months back and he quickly outgrew the basic oval and wants way more in a track then those can offer.

  • If reccomending a different set/layout package, there are a few requierments he has. Shunting yard and a turn table. Eventually he wants to add a dumping station (think old tyco).

Thank you for any and all advice!

2

Here are my thoughts. Yes a simple oval gets boring fast, but adding just a few sidings for industries, or a layout plan that features more running room and variety can re-ignite the interest with much less expenditure and complexity than this particular Atlas layout box. Plus the track is not as “pre-fab” that came with that initial train set so there will be a learning curve just learning how to lay this kind of track, and wire it up, so the trains really run smoothly. That takes practice and skill even for us veterans.

Frankly the track plan shown on the link is jam-packed with tracks in a way that looks exciting and impressive BUT it is going to call for way more wiring than most beginners feel comfortable with, and indeed the materials list shows that it is to be wired to run multiple trains in blocks. While that may sound wonderful that usually suggests something beyond what one person is going to do with the layout. And things like turntables, which this layout includes, can wait for future developments. This is a very early stage to have a turntable.

The thing about model train layouts is that the more you run them the more you learn about what you really want, and then you make those changes and improvements in steps. This particular Atas box cuts through all that and zooms forward awfully far. And the end result is not what the layout owner necessarily wants but what the Atlas company wants to sell.

Let me give one practical example. Few beginner layouts have much in the way of scenery (not just hills and streams, but roads and neighborhoods and structures along the tracks). But scenery is fun and makes the trains so much more realistic. It can be the next step after getting comfortable with laying track. But this track plan is so jammed with track (surprise surprise it is designed by the company th

3

Dave made several very good points. However, young model railroaders need to build experience to get to know what they want. While the Atlas track pack does indeed provide lots of track, that should prove a good thing as your son will have enough track to change things around as his ideas take shape and evolve.

Also note that the Atlas track packs are intended to be powered by Direct Current (DC) and will require several track blocks to be wired up in order to run multiple trains. All of this complicated wiring can be avoided by powering the layout with Digital Command Control (DCC) from the outset. Your son will have no problem figuring out DCC and these systems offer so much more operating realism that will help hook your son for life. Yes, the dive into DCC can be a little expensive, but when you compare it to the equipment needed for multiple train DC operation, it isn’t all that much more. A full featured DCC system capable of running several trains can be found for as little as around $50 for a used Bachmann system to around $250 for a full featured starter set from others. You can also find used intermediate systems that modelers have replaced with newer systems with more bells and whistles.

For comparison, Direct Current (DC) operation requires a separate power pack for each train you want to run. DC operation also requires you to divide the layout into power blocks with toggle or rotary switches to connect track blocks to each power pack. By the time you purchase all of the required gear to run even three trains simultaneously, you are approaching the cost of entry level DCC systems. I suspect your son would quickly get bored with the toggle switch two-step anyway. DCC allows you to run the trains instead of the track and is a far more satisfying means of operation.

Good Luck!

4

Thank you Dave for your advice here. Just when I think we hasve things figured out, I read more forums and replies. I already had concern about how much wiring we would have to learn to do. I am not sure this is a great first step if the wiring portion is that difficult, even for the experience folk.

We have started talking about the scenery aspect of things and he doesnt have much interst. I think he has a hard time seeing the big picture of what can be created (which is what also led him to a layout kit.)

It sounds like we need to go back to the drawing board before we make a purchase.

Thank you

5

Hornblower,

We are commited to using DCC. As that is what our local train club uses and my kid has watched “in action” the most. I forgot to mention that part! Thank you for bringing this point up though. Because it got me realizing that purchasing a kit that comes with DC items isnt a good idea. We are off to our local train store to help us figure more out.

I need a lot of hand holding through this proccess, I appreciate all your points.

Thank you.

6

Hello All,

That’s a lot of track in a small space- -colloquially known as a “spaghetti bowl.”

In the center-left of the plan two (2) sets of tracks pass over another two sets at an angle, along with the crossover tracks in the center of the plan.

In looking at the Kit Details List I don’t see any angled crossing pieces which means the necessity of bridges or adding these track sections to the build.

Adding bridges also means you have to incorporate inclines and declines (grades). These are expressed in percentages. A 2% grade is about average.

On my pike (layout) I have a curved 3% grade that is approximately 7-1/2’. That’s considered pretty steep for most trains to negotiate.

The track plan doesn’t mention the necessity of a double-track bridge but it does mention the crossing in the center, “…one over the other in the center of the layout…”

At just north of $1,500.00, that’s a lot of money and there is no power source- -DC or DCC.

My concern with the physical space of 5-1/2’x8’ is the reach into the center trackage. Even for an adult that might be a bit of a stretch.

The build time of a layout of this complexity could be weeks or possibly longer, depending on the time allotted. Especially with the addition of bridges.

Have you considered bench work; the physical structure that the layout will sit on?

This will take additional time, money, basic construction skills, and the use of power tools.

For a pike of this complexity just plunking the track down on a ping pong table is not a viable option. You will need under-pike access for wiring and troubleshooting purposes.

There is no mention of the wire necessary to power this project with DC. With a pike of this complexity, some basic electronic skills will b

7

That layout was built by a sadist. Way too much track and way too complex for an 11-year old to operate.

Several years back, a 5x9 track plan was posted to this forum, as shown below. It has a turntable and a small classification yard. There is room on that layout to build future industries like a dumping station. It is not a kit, but it is something that Mom and Dad can build with Atlas sectional track. I would encourage the parents to build it so that they too can learn the ins and outs of layout building for when things go wrong.

Just a suggestion.

Rich

8

If a small yard and turntable are requirements, the layout posted above by Rich is a good one. From the Atlas website, Plan HO-25 is similar, and I think HO-20 also meets the requirements and could be fun - running trains out-and-back with unlimited loops before returning, a passing siding, room for future industries and scenery.

Agree 100% with remarks regarding DCC - not only easy wiring and running trains, but sound, bells, whistles etc. to control, if your son enjoys being the train engineer. There are even Apps to run the trains from a cell phone.

Fellow modelers, what say you - if ordering an Atlas set, Code 83 or Code 100? I don’t see a huge argument for the Code 100 - is is that much more robust? The Code 83 is MUCH more realistic and the cost difference is trivial (For the HO-25 package, Code 83 is just $2 more).

9

I’m concerned for an 11-year old using regular Atlas “snap track”. It needs to be fastened down (and eventually ballasted), and if the joints aren’t soldered could lead to electrical problems.

I’d rather see a layout built with Atlas True-track, their version of “click track” where the roadbed/ballast is attached already. It’s easier to use, easier to change or add to, and looks OK too.

https://shop.atlasrr.com/c-1051-ho-true-track.aspx

Bachmann and Kato make similar products. A nice thing about True-track is you can separate the track pieces from the roadbed section, so you can take them apart to weather them separately later for example.

p.s. I would use the code 83 version rather than code 100. Looks better, works just as well.

10

This layout looks much more realistic for him and with room for growth if needed. Us parents will for sure build with him! Thank you for you input.

11

First,

This is exactly how it feels looking at this kit but we really felt lost in what to go with. Having zero experience and then creating our own layout as well, we are a little scared haha. Thank you for all of you listed points.

For the build of the structure; We had planned to use plywood covered with a grass mat. The structure will be accessible from all sides. We are handy enough that a center circle or drop downs can be cut for easier access and expansions later. The room space that we have to work with is 10 x 12 feet. So we havent really worried about sizing. We will add corner feet and use saw horses to help support the middles area.

We are also going to use DCC, I should have mentioned that in the original post but I forgot that part. But we are happy to take any specific DCC reccomendations that people may have. We are prepared to spend around $1500 usd for a layout. We want quality, lasting items rather then rush and quantity.

My son also knows that the build time for this is months. We have planned that the needed items are ordered by the first week in October (because he is antsy to get started) but that the first running train likely wont come until the start of 2023. So we are prepared to work together on the build for awhile before playing all day.

Electrical matters; this will be something that we have to learn from the start. I have zero experience with this. I am happy to learn all the steps but we also dont want to get in deeper then we can realistically handle.

I dont have the expectaion that we will have this track forever but we do want the option to expand or atleast reuse some of the pieces in future designs which is why we have stopped looking at all EZ track, quick snap things. Because we could easily spend a heafty amount of money on these and in the long run th

12

If you have the whole 10x12 room, I would skip the table-style plan and go straight to the around-the-walls layout. So many times a day I wish I had been able to do that. More realistic/prototypical, easier to reach/see everything. Just my USD$0.02.

-Matt

13

Instead of grass mat, consider Woodland Scenics Ground cover. You can spread Elmer’s Glue with your finger and then sprinkle ground cover on top of the glue. The ground cover comes in various shades of green and other colors as well. To make the ground cover more permanent, mix water with Elmer’s glue and cover the ground cover with the mix. Let it dry overnight and it will stay put and look great.

To make a sturdy 5’x9’ table, use 1/2 inch plywood on a 2x4 frame with two 2x4s supports toward the middle of the table. Use 2x4s for legs with corner braces. Here is an example.

Nah, don’t wait until New Year’s Day to run trains. Build the table this weekend. Start laying enough track to are least run trains in a circle. The rest can be built while trains are running. Deadline to run trains: Halloween.

[quote user=“MomSonTrains”]

Electrical matters; this will be something that we have to learn from the start. I have zero experience with this. I am happy to learn all the steps but we also dont want to get in deeper the

14

Hello All,

I concur!

Your comment made me laugh so hard- -*“She Who Must Be Obeyed”- -*had to read the entire thread!!!

Hope this helps.

15

Hello All,

Mabey not…

When I got back into this great hobby I went to a local train show and bought what my budget allowed- -$50.00- -in 2014.

That got me a used promotional set from NAPPA auto parts, with a Direct Current (DC) dual output Power Pack (Cab) and the Tyco Crane set and track- -with two turnouts!

I set that up on a piece of plywood that slid under the bed in the computer/railroad/spare bedroom.

Noting much than a 4’x6’ oval with sidings in HO.

With this new adventure, start small with large expectations!

There have been lines of text dedicated to electronics.

Many contributors have a vast and expansive knowledge of this mysterious force- -electricity.

For model railroading I suggest the following books to add to your railroad-based library:

The Atlas book is a great primer on how model pikes (layouts) operate.

The Digitrax book explains and explores the advantages, installation, implementation, and application of Digital Comand Control (DCC).

Despite being published in 1999, the “back-bone” (digital frame) has been standardized by the National Model Railroad Association (NMRA) standards and recommended practices.

The NMRA is also a great resource for

16

Hello All,

While this might seem to be the easiest solution for bench work; the structure that supports the pike (layout), I see many pitfalls, especially if you plan on using remotely triggered turnouts (switches) from a central control panel.

If this is the goal- -reliable track work is paramount.

Wiring a pike for reliability- -whether running DC or DCC- -is not as simple as connecting two (2) wires from a power source to a single track connection (terminal).

Modern track- -with Nickle-Silver rails- -is a better conductor of electrons than its predecessors.

Yet, it is far from ideal for transmitting a DCC signal, especially through sectional track with its myriad of metal rail joiners. (The plastic rail joiners are used to isolate and insulate separate DC or DCC power districts.)

The most recommended way to reliably power the rails of a DCC pike is referred to as a “Power Bus.”

Simply put…

A “Power Bus” is a set of wires from the power and signal station (command station/booster) that run roughly parallel under the track and often through the bench work.

Copper wire is a much more reliable transmission of the power/signal than the track alone.

Bus wires are a larger gauge (size) than the wires from the bus to the track.

These wires from the bus to the track are referred to as “track feeders.”

Track feeders are ideally located every other track section. This is an advantage of using 3-foot sections of flex track, as track f

17

Matt is correct in suggesting an around the room layout. It is easy to build using wall mounted uprights and brackets, but reaching distance is the key here, so watch the depth of the shelving.

Another plus is backdrops, harder to do on a table top road, but great against the wall on a shelf pike, not to mention the ability to add storage under the shelving…I buy used bureaus at thrift shops, paint them if needed, add outlets right on the bureaus which does simplify powering the layout.

Use flex track where you can, it eliminates potential electric snags section track can cause.

There is an old saying, the KISS method…Keep It Simple, Stupid! This is excellent advice for a novice. Start out simple and become more complex as you learn. Nothing wrong with an oval that has a few passing sidings at first with add on potential.

18

Hello All,

Here are a few previous threads that might help you in your decision-making…

pros and cons of not using trackbed?

Laying track: Glue, nails, or both??

Hope this helps.

19

Nobody said anything about the one thing being missed. The locomotives. the son saw dcc in action at the club which means he saw multiples and such. That requires dcc equipped engines As well. The son might be thinking far larger than that track pack can support. So he might be disappointed from day one. The one “richhotrains” posted is much more of a realistic siz for him. back to locos. The dcc equipped ones are far more expensive than dc. Dc can not run on dcc. So an inexpensive one he wants might not be doable if it is a dcc layout. And the differences between dc only, dcc ready, dcc equipped and sound equipped besides price.

most of us have built our fleet over time and some by converting dc to dcc. Not sure he is really ready to do that convertoin What locos he has now has to be considered. If they all are dc only, they would have to be converted to dcc to run on a dcc layout. Not as simple as just changing the controller. An important factor you don’t want to over look.

shane

20

Hello All,

Good point!

They are aware that DC and DCC are not interchangeable.

I don’t know what LHS they are consulting, but hopefully locomotive(s) will come up in their discussions.

It sounds like they quickly realized the limitations of a DC pike and rather than expanding the DC system are switching to DCC sooner than later.

Without knowing, I presume they haven’t invested in too many DC locomotives given the small oval described.

Thanks for the great input!

Hope this helps.