Bachmann Industries, Inc. purchases Williams Electric Trains; Jerry Williams retires after 35 years in the hobby.
Read the official press release here:
So it’s official. I, for one, am excited to see what Bachmann can do in ‘our’ gauge. I remain impressed with their On30 and large-and-small scale items. Thanks to Jerry for many years of fine products! [bow]
Doug,
I am anxious as well, but my concern is that Bachman will use the Williams purchase solely to get into O-Gauge and then start jacking the price (their On30 stuff isn’t on the cheap side). Williams Trains made quality products, and offered their products in a wide range of roadnames (and a lot of their roadnames were very rare) a standard. I also liked that they didn’t offer their engines in TMCC or PS2, only conventional, but if you wanted to ‘upgrade’ to TMCC or PS2 you could for a cost.
As long as Bachman doesn’t screw with the quality, or enter into partnerships with the Big Two [ this is starting to sound like the Big Te(leve)n ] and start jacking their prices through the roof, then I think it will be good for the hobby… I would be interested to see if they come out with a sound/control system of their own that rivals the DCC system in HO… maybe that is how this segment gets changed to some sort of gauge-wide standard on sound/control.
Well, the rumours were true! I too, am anxious to see if the price and quaility hit the dumper. Some of the rolling stock I have is Williams and planned to buy motive power after Christmas. I think my LHS is a Dealer for Bachmann. Wonder if I’ll see some in store? [swg]
This is a good thing, guys, lets not start off again on how the world might end.
Nobody got sued and nobody went bankrupt.
Bachmann sees this as an investment on the future - which is a very good thing considering how gray-haired we are all becoming. Keep it positive.
Bob,
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think the sky is falling - yet. I am very reserved when a big company, like Bachman, buys out a small guy, like Williams. It all depends on how Bachman uses this as to if it will help or hurt the hobby.
I don’t think Bachman would have entered into this without a plan in place. They have been a major competitor in all the other gauges for years, and I think they saw this as their ‘IN’ into the O-gauge market. A very smart move on their part, IMHO. The question we are asking/debating is ‘what is their plan?’, I don’t think anybody outside of Bachman’s upper management knows that answer… unless you have some ‘insider information’ (which you couldn’t divulge if you did).
We’ll let the next few years unfold and see where the chips end up on the floor…
Williams has posted a letter on their website, stating the news.
I am wondering what changes to the Platinum club will happen?
Chuck
I’m with Bob on this, and see the potential for good things. Much has been written about this, how some hope for Williams to enter the high end scale product areana now with all the bells and whistles… maybe DCC.
When one thinks clearly about this (which some don’t) things appear differently.
Why would Bachmann spend X amount of dollars (probably millions) to buy a company name, tooling and dies that focused on mostly the traditionally sized, traditionally details trains to only throw all those dies away to do something totally different? That makes NO sense what-so-ever. Yes, years ago Williams did produce some scale proportioned items. But in the years since those items were made, the customer expected level of detail has moved far beyond those items. Though Bachamnn could invest in those dies and tools to improve them.
Logically, look at what Bachmann did when they re-introduced Plasticville. It’s available and at at reasonable prices to boot. And Bachmann introduced 3 new Plastiville kits that were scale proportioned when they re-introduced the line. I don’t hear much about those 3 buildings. The items that generate the excitement are the old traditional non-scale favorites. They could have just tossed all the old Plasticville tooling in the dumpster and started the line off totally new. That’s not smart thinking and it’s not where the real dollars are either. Plasticville still sells, and so I believe there’s a good future for a Bachmann Williams line up.
Furthermore, Bachmann has a retail network that far exceeds anything Williams ever had. Bachmann has a recognized, respected name and the organization to promote their products. So to me, this sounds good.
Williams WAS a very small company. So they could afford to do multiple smaller runs of products in many roadnames and then reissue them yearly. I don’t know if we will see Bachmann do the variety of roads available from Williams all at the same time. But
Will bachman service their own products now,or will we have to search for a service center???Hopper
WHOA!! I’m guessing that some people think that I’m already condeming this transaction. I’M NOT!! I will not go back on saying that I’ll buy some motive power from Williams. I think that, with most bigger companies buying out smaller ones, that the quality adn then the customer service goes out the window. I have MUCH respect for Bachman and their products. I have owned MORE than my share of Plasticville & HO.
I don’t know why anyone would not have some concern about these 2 key issues. I can’t wait to see if my LHS gets some Williams in.
Jerry Williams concern for the customer is legend. I’ve heard a few great customer stories about the man (and I’ve only been back a few years). So it’s not a concern for me (us)?
I think this will be a GREAT thing for this hobby (just like I think that RMT is). If voiceing an opinion and concern about major moves in this hobby is condeming something, either I wasn’t clearly relaying my concerns/questions or I’m just being labeled as a pariah. If this forum isn’t for intelligent conversation (not argument) perhaps some would be content I say nothing at all.
Just my opinion, if it’s not wanted, I guess I could go elsewhere (but I’d miss all you great people) And no, I didn’t take Bob’s comment on a personal level.
[swg]
Rich
I think this is a great thing for the hobby. Bachmann is owned by Kader Industries, a Hong Kong company with close to $700 Million in sales. Kader’s strategy has been to buy small outfits and then build them up. This represents a huge infusion of capital into what many see as a stagnant market. I might not be pleased if I owned Lionel or MTH shares but I don’t. Both are in for more competition and the Hobbyist is in for more choice.
A guy has to retire at some point in his life and I think it’s a good move for both Williams and Bachman. The name “Williams by Bachman” along with having the assistance of Jerry Williams and Larry Huntington tells me Bachman does not intend to disrupt how and where the trains are manufactured and sold at this time. So the “buy it before it dissapears” hype is likely nothing more than hype.
This could mean we finally get GN Empire Builder and MKT Texas Special E-7’s. Toyish SD-7’s could be easily tooled using SD-45 drives under stretched geep shells (I say toyish only to cover me from getting blasted by EMD buffs). The future could hold things like Spectrum Acelas for $499 (conventional control) or scale plastic steamers priced much less than diecast.
I just hope the 4 engines I have keep on running like they do now? And hope they make just a good affordable product like they do now.
laz57
My dealings with bachmann is there is a wait to get something back but its fixed right and they back there items like no body else maybe we’ll start getting lifetime warnities finally on O gauge like they do for ho and n . yes we might have to send in $30 - $50 for postage and handling but would you rather do that or pay $$ to have your engine fix. we will see if it comes to this which I hope as Bachmann is a very good and strong company for the model railroading comunity and I like them .
It would be much appreciated if the new Bachmann owners would do some paint scheme research for Chicago & North Western and the Soo Line so they could correct the graphics on all the CNW and SOO Locomotives and rolling stock. The PRR, RDG, and NYC are all accurate, why not get the CNW and SOO right?
Andrew
I will miss Jerry William’s trains as well. I just became a platinum member last year but have a few engines and several cars.
Let’s all remember that one can find Bachmann (HO) trains sets ($50-$100) many more places than Lionel or MTH. In addition, Bachmann has some very attractively priced HO train sets for beginners.
I wonder if we will see similar very attractive priced O sets ($125 - $250)? We might even see Lionel and Bachmann duking it out over beginner priced sets in national retailers like Target, Sam’s Club, Wall-mart, and department stores. This could be GREAT for us! Lionel might not be so keen on the idea.
Jim H
Actually Jim according to Calabrese’s recent statements this is just what Lionel is aiming for, selling loads to entry level sets and expansion packs. I got to thinking about this last night and the more and more I analyze this merger it appears there are going to be more and more good things coming to the hobby. Lionel has started selling playmats and backdrops for their beginner sets, and Bachman already has Plasticville, so I would look for some entry level sets with some small cities already included, and it wouldn’t add much to the cost either… and keep in mind that Atlas-O has released plans for starter sets as well! This could be HUGE for the hobby…
And after reading Brianel’s post (yes I read all of it) I tend to agree with him… I’m not sure I would want to be sending my trains back to the company for service though… I like taking my trains to my LHS and speaking with the fellas, gives me a reason to get out of the house and have some comradaries…
“WHOA!! I’m guessing that some people think that I’m already condeming this transaction. I’M NOT!!.. Just my opinion, if it’s not wanted, I guess I could go elsewhere (but I’d miss all you great people)”
Rich, I don’t think anyone, certainly not me, was condemning the transaction or anything you said. Matter of fact, you made some good observations on your second post.
If you check out what was said about all of this when it was still just a rumor on the other forums, you’ll find a lot of nonsense and impractical observations. Almost as absurd as some dairy buying out Coca-Cola and then dropping the soda to put milk in the same bottle. I certainly wouldn’t expect MTH to turn the Premiere line into 027 kinds of cars like the early K-Line ones, so beats me why some expect (and literally demand) something different out of the Williams line other than what it has clearly been.
As far as my experience with Bachmann both on a retail and customer service level, it has been nothing short of exceptional. I’ve been using Bachmann smoke units for years. Most of mine are at least 6 or 7 years old and still work as new. I’ve never had a Seuthe unit go for more than a year tops. The Bachmann HO starter sets today are much better than they ever were in the past.
For a further example, look what Atlas has done with the Industrial Rail line… it’s expanded and grown by leaps and bounds. Now, would I personally like some modern road names? Yes. But I do really like the newly tooled IR reefer just announced… the Swift one looks really nice. And look and what RMT is doing. These items are all traditionally sized and must be doing well because the companies keep adding to the product lines. Even Lionel has expanded the offerings of affordable starter cars, both as individual items and set add-on packages. Bachmann must be taking note of this.
Is there a market for to
"And after reading Brianel’s post (yes I read all of it) I tend to agree with him… "
Thanks Brent. I don’t just speak for myself. I speak for many who do not belong nor post on any of the internet train forums. It’s a far larger number than anyone thinks. I’ve gotten many emails from guys telling me they’re afraid to post on the OGR forum for fear of being knocked or made fun of because they like “toy” trains. I always tell them to come over here to CTT.
And now concerning service, directly from the Bachmann website. Pretty standard policy:
Warranty Information
Bachmann’s Lifetime Limited Warranty covers motorized units only. Under the warranty, Bachmann can decide whether to repair or replace an item at their discretion.
Items less than a year old are fully covered and will be serviced or replaced at no charge when accompanied with warranty card or proof of purchase.
For items more than one year old, there is a nominal service charge for repair or replacement:
- HO & N Diesel: $10.00
- HO & N Steam: $15.00
- Spectrum® HO, N, and On30: $20.00
- Large Scale: $25.00
All accessories, power packs and speed controllers, and Plasticville USA® items are covered for 90 days only.
brianel,
I understand Bachman’s warranty policy. My LHS is more of a gathering place, a place to check out the latest and greatest in the hobby and ‘feel’ what you are buying, and maybe let your latest purchase stretch it’s legs before you get it home. [:)] Bachman’s main audience is department stores like WalMart, Target, Sears, etc. I’ve not seen too many Bachman sets in LHSes… I could be wrong as I don’t frequent LHSes that target HO, N, Z, etc.
Again, I think this will be great for the hobby, and hopefully those that buy these starter sets get the bug and come visit us fellows at the LHS… could get crowded, but that means the LHS will be doing some business and hopefully they can expand… hmmmm… larger test tracks and more product…
nfm