One of our conductors once pulled an inadvertent efficiency test on his engineer.
In the course of planning for some special event, he placed a traffic cone trackside to mark a stopping point.
Turns out they weren’t going to use the stopping point (I think the special event was cancelled), but the conductor didn’t pick the cone up.
On another scheduled trip a few days later he noticed the train (he was conductor) slowing. He called the engineer on the radio to ask why, and it was because of the cone. After confirming between them that it was the cone he had placed, the they went their merry way.
Since we run through the woods, we occasionally encounter a tree down trackside. Some trees (particularly some evergreens) turn red after they die, so you kind of perk up when you first spot one down the tracks.
What does this mean? The banner must be big/bright enough to be seen three car-lengths ahead of the engineer? So in long-hood-forward mode, that’s two lengths ahead of the loco.
One is supposed to stop a 15-mph train in two car lengths??!!
1/2 the RANGE OF VISION - not exceeding the speed mentioned (some carriers 15, others 20 MPH).
Operating long hood forward, the Engineer has much less vision on right hand curves than on left hand curves. Operate accordingly and under those circumstance 15 MPH fully EXCEEDS 1/2 the range of vision…
If I place a fusee trackside (being careful not to burn anything down), the engineer is required to hold restricted speed for one mile. Period. Given access, I could go almost to the end of that mile to place my banner. Usually it’s a quarter mile, give or take, but I try to include a curve.
A fusee or flag placed inside Rule 98 territory (restricted speed) requires a stop before reaching same.
We can use cones now, too, in place of the fusee.
I can’t give them permission to resume track speed, either.
Okay, gang. I’m going to give this one more shot. I may be dense (a distinct possibility), but I have no clue what the three car-lengths refers to.
The engineer sees the fusee. He goes to restricted speed as quickly as is prudent. He proceeds at a speed whereby he can stop in half the distance to a visible obstruction. Sooner or later, he sees the banner. He stops, hopefully at a point which satisfies the trainmaster.
So, the three car-lengths: From what to what? When? Why? ???
Help the challenged. You’ll feel better about yourself. You’ll be rewarded in the afterlife.
Good luck, L.O. I was wondering about that, too. It seems absurdly close. And by the way, he must be able to stop the train in half the distance so he’s got to stop in one car length in your example running long hood forwaed.
Three car lengths from the vantage point of the engineer. So don’t put the banner around the curve behind a building such that the engineer can’t see it until they are 50 feet away.
I am a DSLE on our RR and I have not heard that 3 car rule before. It might be a RR specific practice, though I will ask about it the next time I recertify my DSLE credentials. If operating at restricted speed properly, an engineer should in fact be able to stop short of ANY obstruction, regardless of how close they have to get to see it. That said, we are also not supposed to be setting traps with the intent of trying to cause failures. When I do a test, I will take into consideration if the engineer is running long or short hood forward, and make sure the fusee is on the engineer’s side, though the banner will always be on a curve with limited sight distance.
Without being able to read the FRA’s mind, I have to guess, but…
I would suppose the rule is to prevent a banner from being placed where it would be impossible for the engineer to respond in time - think of that stop sign that’s hidden behind trees until you’re right at the intersection.
I mentioned involving a curve when I conduct a test - as most of our testers do - that’s simply so the engineer can’t see the banner at the same time as they see the fusee.
The idea is to see if the engineer responds appropriately, not to place him in a situation where he can’t.
In our case, where the conductor is back on the train, part of the procedure involves the engineer communicating the sighting of the fusee to the conductor, including the fact that he/she is reducing to restricted speed. This communication will usually also be heard by the person conducting the test, indicating to them that the engineer has recognized the situation and is reacting appropriately.
In addition, in territory where restricted speed is the rule (ie, NORAC Rule 98), a tester could step out waving a red flag. The FRA’s guidance prevents them from doing so in such a manner that the engineer can’t stop the train appropriately.
yeah except part of restricted speed is operating your train in such a manner that you can stop and within half the range of vision, short of TERMS D. it does not mention anything about 3 car lengths. i would hope no railroader especially a engineer would use the excuse that they couldn’t see the banner for more than 150 feet. it’s supposed to simulate a real world situation and failure is a very big deal.
Say this is train of 100 empty hoppers with two six-axle units. Even at 5 mph, I wouldn’t have thought you could safely stop that train in one car length.
The rule requires operating at a speed that permits stopping within 1/2 the range of vision, but you don’t have to actually stop at the 1/2 way point.
Some years ago there was a manager that failed an engineer because he didn’t stop at the 1/2 way point from when the red flag first became visible (coming around a curve) and the actual location of the flag. The failure was thrown out and a clarification was issued on how to apply the rule.
I would guess the 3 car rule isn’t in an operating rule book, but rather a manager’s manual on how to conduct effeciency tests.
The 1/2 the range of vision requirement is to cover the situation of two trains approaching each other in opposite directions. If they both stop in 1/2 their range of vision they will not hit.
In some situations being able to stop a big train in 1/2 the range of vision requires moving very, very, very slowly. Dispatchers or trainmasters have been known to complain about someone following the rule too literally.
A few years ago, an engineer (I believe on NS) was disciplined for going too slow when moving at restricted speed. An arbitraitor upheld the discipline.