I’m no stranger to building layouts (first one in 1956), including the application of ballast. I did my previous HO layout back in the mid - 90s and it came out very nice (my opinion of course). I now have a new HO layout and find that I’m not having all that easy of a time doing the ballast - and is somewhat frustrating. Maybe its my age (69.9), but it just seems so much harder to do it right than on previous layouts.
Anyway, I find myself questioning two of my “ballast laying rules”, and want to throw them out here…
First, I use the “medium” size Woodland Scenics HO ballast. I’m wondering if the small or N scale would be better - better looking and easier to lay and form…
Second, I have always preached, “do the ballast last”, after all the scenery around it is done. But now, as I smooth out the ballast, pieces often pop out and land on the dirt/grass “yards away” from the trackage. And of course, that sticks out and looks terrible (to me). So now I’m thinking, maybe I should apply and form the ballast first, and then do the ground cover around it afterwards.
I have tried Woodland Scenics Fine ballast on my HO scale layout, but it doesn’t work for me on the mainlines. On the other hand, the Fine ballast works great in yards (freight and coach) and in gravel-type parking lots and contry roads. For mainlines, I use Woodland Scenics Medium ballast. It looks more prototypical.
I do my ballasting last. I use a small hobby vacuum to pick up stray ballast.
In the real world, ballast is applied over finished scenery. Small quantities migrating to unintended places is a common occurrence. I see nothing unrealistic about it.
Just to make you feel better, I’ve been looking at a lot of RR photos lateley focusing on track and ballast, and realizing that in the real world ballast isn’t always that neat-looking either. Plenty of it gets into the “landscape” even when it is pretty newly laid.
That said, after testing with with WS medium and fine ballasts and being dissatisfied I decided to go with Scenic Express #40 natural stone ballast. I am starting with the blended version and its a little darker than I like (may get some light grey and try that next) but I find it works a lot better than the WS stuff. It is heavier and stays put, and smaller than the WS medium ballast which looks too coarse to me. Also unlike my first layout where I used detergent to wet the water/glue mix I am now soaking it down good with alcohol before applying the glue. Much better results.
As for the order of things, trying to figure that out myself. I’ve decided that the best time to ballast is after the base scenery is in place, and to paint the rails is after the ballast is applied using an airbrush. That way I can also get good staining effects on the ballast and ties on either side of the rails. Of course if there are trees and structures in place it makes it rather tough to get to.
I always use the n scale ballast on my HO layouts, I too think it looks better. I paint the sides of the roadbed with undiluted white glue and sprinkle the ballast onto the glue. After it dries I vacuum the unattached ballast. Much less messy and I have more control. I use the “wet diluted white glue method” only for the ballast between the ties. I paint the roadbed where turnouts go a dark oily color and I don’t put any ballast or glue on the turnouts, just on the sides of the roadbed. Finally I always do the ballasting before the rest of the scenery.
I’ve always felt that WS Medium ballast looked too large, almost softball-sized for HO. When I 've had a choice in the matter, i either go with WS Fine, or with some other brand.
LION does ballast last (if at all) Him has some ballast on the Brighton Line, and it is not glued down. LIONS like gravity. Gravely Gravity Ballast…
Sorry.
LION has been doing lots of re-wiring lately, him will need to vacuum entire layout before is it operational again. This will pick up the ballast. OK so be it. I got lotsa ballast, and if I need more, it is no further than the nearest bag of kitty litter. Soon wire project will finish, and LION will turn to scenery. Ballast is scenery. LION wants to put it in BEFORE doing so will damage installed scenery. So if train is winding its way through a forested landsacpe, (and yes, a tree does grow in Brooklyn) then ballast goes in first. If train on an embankment, then it may go in later.
Nah… Ballast is part of the track work, it goes in with the track work.
It’s been my experience that Woodland Scenics makes some fantastic scenery materials, ballast isn’t one of them.
I’m not excatly sure what WS uses as their ballast stock but I’ve heard it is something like crushed seashells or coral or oyster shells. I have never been able to make a convincing scene using any of their finer gravel products. Some of the larger stuff is OK like talus and stone but Ballast… no way.
My real preference is Smith & Sons S1450-6 Penn-Ohio # 50 if you can find it. They have other colors and sizes but I like the P-O the best. The last time I ordered it I found it at Scenic Express http://www.sceneryexpress.com/products.asp?dept=1107 However, I would suggest contacting them to be sure they are still handling Smith & Sons.
I thought the gray blend medium ballast from WS was fine. But that is me.
At least for my area around here.
I understood it to be ground up walnut shells fragements painted gray?
I also think that some “scattered ballast” is part of the landscape around the tracks in 1:1 real life. If nought else, truant boys being boys will disassemble and scatter it about. Not enough to damage trians, but enough to find it scattered, and the RRs themselves, having watched them put in new welded rail along here on the NS lines, scatter some unintentionally around. Their machines are accurate, perhaps, but not necessarily precise with every stone?
I would not fret over it.
The idea of some rubbish, though maybe not in a “clean yard”, would be a bit realistic at least for periods prior to the “litterbug” faze. I often suggest guys {when they ask} add some debris and scattered tree branches etc along/in a water way as to be realistic.
Look at it this way, does it really matter to the untrained eye? or that pesky “3 or 5 foot rule”…does it look good 3 or 5 feet away? unless you were grossly negligent in ballasting, from 5 feet awey, I may not be able to see a few grains of stray ballast in the scenery…
I did my ballast before scenery and got grass growing out of my mainline ballast. Believe me when I say its easier to pick ballast from grass than grass from ballast. The WS ballast is crushed walnut shells. I also use a soft makeup brush to spread it and do not put too much on. Its easier to add than to take away. I also mix fine and medium together for the main line and sidings and yards get fine or sand.
Ditto. Yes, of course the ballast ‘comes later’ after Nature has established the terrain, but Nature also imposes herself into the outer reaches of the ballast once again. I groom the beach sand I use, wet and glue it, and then cover it with painter’s wide green tape. From that point on, I broadcast ground foam in at least three varieties and colours, and spray it all with dilute wood glue. When the area has dried, up comes the tape for the ballast weathering and the weathering of the rails. Some of the ground foam will be at the base of the ballast, giving the appearance that it has begun to encroach…which is what really happens out there in the real world. Heck, in the real world, wheat, rye, and barley grains sprout and begin to grow between the rails on Canada’s main lines, and I’m pretty sure it happens across the border as well.
I use med WS ballast on mine as the small even though it may be closer to scale, kinda disappears. The size you use depends on how you want to use your railroad. If you want to make it Proto 87, then small by all means but I find the average modeler dose not go to that level on a layout.
May I add… ground up oyster shells are a major source of ballast/ground cover at many of the Gulf Coast oil refineries. They really do a good job, and make use of a plentiful “waste product”.
To clarify my frustration with bits of ballast going here and there (and everywhere), it is the striking difference between the light grey “rock” and the black/brown/green groundcover that disturbs me. In looking at a scene of nice “dirt”, there are some bright grey things here and there - which takes away from the enjoyment of the scene (to me of course).
I guess it all comes down to the fact that laying ballast this time is a lot more difficult than I recall it being the last time I did it…
Are you having trouble w/ laying/ spreading the WS ballast or that the medium size doesn’t look right? I find that the WS used exclusively can present troubles as it is fairly light and will “flick” all over and not want to lay down right. I have used Scenik Xpress mixed w/ WS and found it lays down far better. We used that mix more for that “salt and pepper” look to the varied gray granite. One hint when spreading is to gently blow at the almost groomed ballast and do so at a sharp angle. this moves quite a few of the stray grains off the ties and web. Wetting WS ballast can also be troublesome as it almost wants to “float” once saturated. Isolpropyl alcohol solve quite a bit of this. To use "real rock ballast as Scenik Xpress or AZ rock you wil eliminate may of the problems. One note about using real rock, you can tend to end up w/ stone dusting residue on the tie tops, most of this discoloration will fade or disappear as you add the glue. I rather like the “dust” as it adds weathering/ fade to the already painted ties. Ballast is a learning experience and no one way is the right way…
I agree that a random piece of model ballast sticks out like a sore thumb when it gets into the scenery; the solid color, the size, and perhaps even the shape of it are all at odds with what random pieces of ballast look like in the prototype when you find them in the weeds, etc. I second the idea of ballasting first and then adding scenery.
On my next big block of ballasting effort, I will put the ballast down first, and then add the surrounding ground cover. I’ve never done that before, and will see how it turns out.
As it stands, I’ve got a large amount of WS HO ballast for the mains, so I will continue using that. I do have other color/type ballast for the yards, secondary trackage, and loco terminal.
Thanks again for all your input! It really is appreciated.
You’re getting some good hints so far. I will also add that I don’t care for Woodland Scenics ballast because I find it hard to control and glue the way I want. Real rock products are a lot easier for me to work with. One benefit is they are less likely to get flicked around and land a long ways from the track, which addresses one problem you’re encountering. They also don’t float when glued or get dislocated by static during application.
This HO scene has Scenic Express #40 ballast on the two center tracks, and natural sand on the others. I do allow the edges to blend somewhat, reflective of my 1970s - 80s era with machines doing ballast maintenance.
The mainline ballast here sits on a low fill built up from sand. I usually add ballast last so grass doesn’t get into it, but may add fill material before grass, or sometimes just before ballasting.
This is Union Pacific’s Malad branch in northern UT. Note how the ballast and fill material are intermingled. In some places vegetation has grown back where ballast spilled over it, while in others ballast is still visible quite a ways down from the track. It’s OK to create a varied look, and pretty easy if you keep all the materials handy so you can blend them during application.
