Hi all. I usually model HO but have been working in N recently. The ballast I am using is very fine (#50) and the usual water dish soap doesnt seem to work as well as it does on HO ballast. Is alcohol that much better?
bagal
I “eyeball” my wet water and in the end I’d say I have a 50-60% alcohol content to 40-50% distilled water. I still add a very small amount of dish soap to this just for good measure.
I was gifted with several gallons of 99% isopropyl so that’s what I start with.
With #50 ballast you have to find the very finest mister you can get. Some of the small bottles meant for plant misting work well. Mist from well above the R-of-W so the water settles down into the ballast without disturbing it. Don’t be afraid to really soak the area.
I bought bottles very similar to these:
I can dial the nozzle down to a fine mist.
This is what works for me.
Regards, Ed
I don’t care for alcohol as a wetting agent for ballast (or ground cover, either) as I usually work on longish sections of track or large scenic areas, and most of it would be evapourated before I got finished. I also don’t care for the smell of it, but have no arguements against the drinkin’ kind of alcohol.
If your tap water is fairly hard, the alcohol might work better, but you could also use distilled water (available at pretty-well any supermarket). I sometimes use water from the trainroom’s dehumidifier - as long as the water-collecting bucket is cleaned beforehand, it’s a decent equivalent for distilled water.
Wayne
You can also soften hard water by boiling it.
Rich
Interesting that Scenic Express rate the #50 as protypical for HO. I’ve been using another suppliers “fine” for HO and it looks coarser than even #40. It looks good to me. Anyway I tried using some denatured alchohol and that seemed a liitle better.
Alcohol is all that I have been using as a flowing agent for the ‘‘glue’’ in HO scale WS fine ballast, scenic grass, weeds, real dirt and small stone. Alcohol was cheaper and readily available pre covid.
Alcohol and glue is what I used maybe 20 years ago for my N-scale layout for fixing some really super fine ballast. I do not recall the brand of ballast.
I use isopropyl alcohol – 70% or 90% (and WalMart sells a 50%) – it works for me but I tend to do short stretches at a time so the evaporation that Wayne complains of is not a big problem for me.
One product that MIGHT work - I have not tried it – is the “Clean Shower” product that at one time was an Arm & Hammer product. I get the refills so I reuse the original old sprayer. It has a slightly slippery feel that reminds me of alcohol.
Dave Nelson
I also use alcohol since I work only on small sections. My layout is pretty small.
I also use eye droppers for the alcohol. I did not have good luck with sprayers, and since I have a small layout, it works for me.
For the glue, I use watered down glue, and I use the Elmer’s glue bottle to apply it, drop by drop.
Yeah, that would work. Also, putting what you need in a black garbage bag and leaving it out on the back deck near noon.
Like Dave does, I use the cheapo drug store 70% isopropyl. It does a good job sprayed or dribbled. Then, ‘wet’ glue mix will penetrate well in my experience.
Um, no, boiling it will concentrate the salts that make it “hard”. Now if you happen to have a still you can condense the boiled off vapour and that will be softer than rainwater. I can think of possibly a better use for a home still… depending on local laws.
Also, soft water isn’t at all the same thing as “wet” water. To reduce surface tension, which is the objective, you add a detergent or similar “wetting agent”. Only very hard water will affect the wetting effect of the average detergent. Alcohols also reduce surface tension and ethanol also reduces internal tension, I find, to a point.
The advantage of alcohol is it evaporates before the water does, hence the aroma which dissipates quite rapidly. Even small amounts of detergent remain in your ballast.
Although the aroma of alcohol is not particularly offensive I do look forward to a time when every elevator no longer smells like a cheap saloon…
Like John, I never spray when ballasting or doing scenic cover. I use a pipette (fancy word for cheap plastic eyedropper) for alcohol and the old Elmer’s bottle for the diluted white glue. I use the alcohol straight. It’s cheap, and the faster evaporation time speeds ballasting.
Thanks for the replies. I was working on a Free-moN module. I was happy enough with the end result, not great but ok for a first try on N. The really fine fine ballast just calls for a slightly different technique, the wetting being the key. I use a fine spray for the wetting and a hair dye bottle for the glue. Do the shoulders first which means the glue can be applied between the rails as well so it soaks into the shoulder.
And minerals as well.
Sure, most people refer to the deposits from hard water as minerals. Salts are minerals consisting of a metal cation and a complementary anion. You’ll see these depisits in humidifiers, kettles and pans used to boil water frequently and then inadequately rinsed and dried.
To soften water artificially common table salt is used to replace calcium ions with sodium ions. This does not remove the minerals but changes the feel of the water and its interaction with soaps and detergents.
Distilling is the only way to remove the minerals to get pure water. Distilled water presents its own set of issues though, unrelated to model railroading. Definitely unnecessary to use distilled water for affixing ballast.
Only a tiny amount if detergent is needed to reduce surface tension adequately. Alcohols would be sufficient if the smell isn’t objectionable.
I see what you did there. [:D]
I eyeball my water and alcohol mixture too. I’m not sure there is a proper mixture. I use a spray bottle that came with eyeglass cleaner. It doesn’t hold very much but the spray is very fine.
I’ve always used isopropyl when ballasting. Apply along the rails with a pipette, letting it wick through the ballast, then follow through with a pipette with thinned glue, but avoiding the rails.
Never had an issue with it disturbing the placement of the granuals.
Easier nowadays to find rubbing alcohol than distilled water (yes, we have a distilled water shortage)