I’m in the market for a very basic DCC system. I’m in a modular club, so I don’t really need anything that can do heavy lifting. All I really need is the ability to reprogram my addresses and other minor tasks at the workbench I tried my hand at that new fangled DCC++, but apparently its beyond my skillset to get the dang thing working. What’s out there at the lower end of features?
If all you want to do is program decoders, get a Digitrax PR3 and use it in it’s stand-alone programming mode. No Digitrax (or other) command station is needed to use it in that manner.
If you also want to test-run locos after you’ve programmed them, get a SPROG II.
To add, both devices use JMRI to do the programming, which is free software. If you don;t currently have anything, and don’t plan to use Digitrax sound decoders, the SPROG is the best bet, it programs and reads significantly faster, plus can actually run trains, sort of a poor man’s command station/booster.
–Randy
Might not be the cheapest but It will program just about anything out there as far as decoders go. Want to use JMRI- you will need and USB adaptor to hook up to your coumpter. NCE Power Cab- Simple and easy to use! Hook up two wires and plug in a power supply and you are off and running!
I’ll put in another good word for the PowerCab. Compact, uncomplicated, and can do most things you can possibly ask of it. There’s really no totally simple stand-alone DCC unit if you want to include programming.
Others have spoken up for the Digitrax equivalent. What does your club use? On the other hand, if you want simple, it’s hard to beat the PowerCab.
While I agree the Power Cab is a good choice, it is much more expensive than a PR3 or a Sprog. I think the later are more in line with the OP wants/needs.
Jack,
Yeah, the PowerCab is about double or a little more than a PR3. But the OP was asking about simple, too. Given the computer interface, that’s not necessarily simple. Also why I asked about the club’s DCC. If Digitrax, then the PR3 may fit into the OP’s experience, either positively (because it’s familiar) or negatively (because some folks never get comfortable with Digitrax and that may be why he asking about simple), which may suggest going one way of the other.
Some folks may also not have room for a compter to support the PR3 at the workbench. There are ways around that, but the system required to operate the PR3 will likely not be as compact and portable as the all-in-one PowerCab.
Finally, if the OP does have access to layouts that run NCE, the PowerCab can be used as a throttle with them. You can even get it with wireless installed, making it even more versatile.
Yes Mike your view is worth looking into. Altough I own a Power Cab, my own set up is a PR3 and 3 feet of track that I install near my computer. I think you can’t beat JMRI when it comes to programming sound decoders. If I had to start over I would go for the Sprog III.
We use Digitrax, so all I really need there (so far) has been a throttle. Its going to be years, if ever, before I have the space for a home layout, so I’ve been a little reluctant to dive all the way in if I don’t need to. That’s why DCC++ appealed to me, plus I’ve wanted to tinker with those Arudino things anyhow. But, at the same time, I had no idea this PR3 or SPROG existed. Ultimately, that’s the level of device that I need. Probably would have skipped the small amount I laid out on my abandoned project if I’d known such things were around. I’d just assumed you needed a full command station and everything.
Putting the laptop on the workbench isn’t a big deal. I do like that SPROG lets me actually move the locomotive to test it. On the other hand, I can get a PR3 for almost third less (and obtain one locally). Is there any inherent trade-off with this SoundLoader software they use? The sheer robustness of JMRI is neat, but at the same time…if this Soundloader can let me do the simple things like make not all my locomotives have the same address…well that’s great. Does the PR3 direction limit me in any functionality, like, say, consisting? Although, if I’m reading you guys right, JMRI can talk through the PR3? Is it really coming down to the main difference being, as the SPROG site says, “also includes the ability to test your locos, or run your layout, with on-screen computer control, and full DCC operation?”
I’m completely new to DCC. I’d never even owned a DCC locomotive until three months ago and borrowed a throttle (Digitrax UT4R) for a show from a helpful veteran. Making my ditch lights cycle made me feel like a little kid, but that’s a different discussion.
To be really simple, most of the functionality to run and program your locos lie in the throttles available in JMRI, plus its DecoderPro function. Never used the PR3, but I’d describe it as the power unit for JMRI, providing power while translating the DCC signal from JMRI to the track. The SPROG is a similar thing. I’m sure someone more familiar with Digitrac will be able to add more detail.
It sounds to me like that and your computer will take care of what you need.
I think that the soundloader will only work with Digitrax decoders for loading sound files. So if you consider this a drawback…
And if you want to consist, either of the NCE or Digitrax basic systems will allow you to do that a lot faster than having to start your computer, start the JMRI program, and then figure out how to consist, especially when you are not doing it everyday.
Lots of conjecture and mis-information about the PR3 in this thread. As a long-time PR3 user, I’ll do my best to clear some of it up.
For purposes of this discussion[1], the PR3 is a stand-alone programmer. That’s all it can do, is program CV’s on literally any DCC decoder (and download sound schemes to Digitrax sound decoders). It’s not a throttle, it’s not a command station, it’s not a booster, it’s a stand-alone programmer. You can’t run trains with it[2]. It does need a computer and appropriate software[3] to function.
The SPROG II is a complete DCC system, EXCEPT there is no physical throttle for it. So you MUST use a computer and JMRI or other software to get the SPROG II to do anything. The SPROG 3 is basically the same but it’s booster is higher capacity (more amps) than the SPROG II, which is why I recommended the SPROG II and not the SPROG 3 in my initial post. In the OP’s circumstances, the extra power probably isn’t needed, and would unecessarily increase his cost.
[1]The PR3 also has a LocoNet pass-through mode, similar to a LocoBuffer. But that is a completely different function that does not come into play when the PR3 is being used as a stand-alone programmer.
[2] You can “sort of” do this with Digitrax sound decoders, because the PR3 has internal logic that sets a CV to put the decoder into “neutral” so you can run up the sounds without the loco moving. But that CV doesn’t work in the same manner on non-Digitrax decoders, and the PR3 doesn’t put out enough current to actually run a motor. So the over-simplified answer is “No, you can’t run locos with the PR3.”
[3] Digitrax provides a number of utilities, for various purposes, that work with the PR3. For decoder programming, you would use Soundloader. It’s geared towards (surprise!) Digitrax sound decoders, but you can use it to progr
Did not realize the PR3 was so oriented towards Digitrax proprieatry functionality. Depending on how Digitrax-exclusive one’s programming needs are, that might be just the thing.
On the other hand, if one deals with a variety of decoders, the PowerCab would be back in the game if I was considering my own choices, given the variety of decoders in my fleet and not a single Digitrax among them. It’s worked well for my needs. The SPROGs sound interesting, too, but have had no need given equipment already on hand here.
Well said - The PR3 has two function:
- A computer interface between JMRI and a Digitrax system.
- Or, a ‘Stand-alone’ programmer(no DCC train running).
I looked at a Sprog device for the workshop, but bought a Digitrax Zephyr for about the same money. I figured having a backup DCC system unit was worth a few extra bucks.
Jim
Mike,
The PR3 ins standalone mode will program all decoders sound or silent on the marketplace. All you need is a 16 to 18v power supply.
I use a Sprogg II at my test bench on about 20 feet of test track where I also can switch to DC if necessary using an MRC Tech4 with meters.
I’ve been a JMRI user for years and am very comfortable with it. I save my roster to a network drive so I can access the roster on both the layout or test bench.
The Sprogg performs all the DCC programming and sometimes when I have a decoder that seems to not want to cooperate, the Sprogg will come through.
I have not personally tried it but I believe you can use WiFi throttles with the Sprogg/JMRI setup.
http://smallmr.com/wordpress/low-costlow-effort-dcc-for-the-small-layout/
Scroll down a bit at this blog and you will see the screenshots of the JMRI throttle and Sprogg setups.
I use an old Android Kindle Fire that my sister gave me on my main layout and I’m amazed at how fun and easy it is to run trains using it. I used a free app, Enginedriver, that I downloaded from Amazon. iPhone people have their own throttle app but I have no knowledge of anything Apple
http://jmri.sourceforge.net/help/en/package/jmri/jmrit/withrottle/UserInterface.shtml
My main layout is Digitrax and I recently replaced the RRCirkits Locobuffer USB with a PR3 for the only reason that I needed to upgrade the firmware in three Digitrax DT402D throttles and three UP92 duplex transcievers. Maybe I could have used the Locobuffer for this but decided to get the PR-3 to be sure. The PR-3 was easy to set up and makes a great interface to Loconet. Locobuffer works fine, too.
The firmware upgrade went just fine. Digitrax has very good instructions in their support pages.
Using the stock JMRI throttle is fine but look into the WiFi interface that’s already part of JMRI. I’m pretty
Jack,
Since JMRI was involved, I figured that was covered. I was thinking more in terms of the sorts of every bell and whistle proprietary Brand Name That Only the Indoctrinated Can Make Sense Of Menus with way too many options that confuse me when I want simple to just run trains.
I missed what Randy said earlier and just realized all this talk about the PR3 was not something that actually ran trains. And I always presumed in an age when people are focused on sound, they might just want to run trains on a test track. Go figure. I know I do when I’m using mine, checking what the results of different settings are, but also many other settings where you may not know exactly where you’ll end up until the loco performs in response. I rarely just punch in a CV and when I do that’s easy enough to do with the PowerPro controller on the main, not on the programming/test track.
I can see now how a program only track would literally be program only, nothing else. But too barebones for me and seems better suited to burning a bunch of decoders with the same CVs than what I use a programming track for. YMMV I suppose.
So it boggles me that yet a third box of some kind would be required to run trains with the PR3 and that’s simple. But I guess that accounts for why it’s so much cheaper.
There ARE no Digitrax-specific PR3 menus to confuse you - As has been mentioned repeatedly in this thread, and as you just noted yourself, external software such as JMRI must be used with the PR3. IMHO, this is just a shot at a DCC vendor you apparently don’t care for.
You’re confusing a programming track with a test track. Most DCC systems do NOT combine that functionality. They do service mode programing on the programming track and (test) run on the main. Your PowerCab is one of the very few DCC systems that use the
The OP was asking for a simple system or device to program his loco’s
Can’t beat a NCE Power Cab.
Who would want to just program and not be able to test run you locomotive after you had programmed it?
Sytems are like cars or other things- you will get an sales pitch on a system which is the users preferance.
go with what you are comfterable with!
Yes, seems to be a lot of confusion on the PR3, I have no idea why. Just because it is made by Digitrax, it is no more complex than any similar device, nor is it Digitrax proprietary in any way - Digitrax freely gave up the information needed to allow free JMRI to fully control it as an alternative to their SOundloader software. Soundloader will program the regualr CVs on ANY brand decoder, but will only install sound files in Digitrax decoders. ALL (3?) sound decoders that allow users to put their own sounds in use proprietary methods, QSI’s is not compatible with Loksounds is not compatible with Digitrax’s. FOR THE SOUND FILE PART ONLY. They all follow the standards for regular CV programming and can be programmed by anything.
The thing you don;t get with a PowerCab is CV READ capability. There’s no way to retrieve current settings. That’s in part why more than one person with a PowerCab has a PR3. The PR3 (and SPROG) allow both reading and writing of CVs. The use of JMRI instead of a handheld throttle or system of some sort also allows saving this information in a database . JMRI programming uses check boxes, radio buttons, and drop down lists with plain English explanations of the settings. For pretty much every decoder ever made.
A laptop, PR3, and s 2-3 foot long piece of track makes a great portable programming station - that’s how i tend to use mine, taking it along to train shows to help people with their decoder setups. I actually don;t use it much at home, because I use all the same decoders in my locos and ones without sound get little more than an address change - my prototype and era does not require any sort of flashing ditch lights or anything that might involve more complex programming, so it’s much faster to just use a throttle and assign an address and go. But at the club - I’ve had people want to adjust the volume on their sound loco and have no idea what kind of decoder is in it. Justput iton the PR3 track and JMRI uses the manf