I have only done a little bit of weathering, but never have painted rolling stock from scratch. I have some Walthers Budd undecorated passenger cars that I need to paint. I have a Badger single action air bru***o use.
Question: I have a jar of Poly Scale stainless steel colored paint. Is this the type of paint I should use or something else?
Question: Where can I find Southern decals for passenger cars?
Question: What are some of the “Gotcha’s” that I need to watch out for? Some hints and secrets?
I would appreciate all help and suggestions. I sure don’t want to screw up these fine cars.
There is an article is in the July 2003 Model Railroader. It covers realistic looking metalizing for stainless steel passenger cars using Alclad II Chrome. The author did a nice job on his RDC. You can find Alclad II paints at hobbyshops. They can also order it for you.
Basically, In a nutshell:
Make sure the passenger car is completely stripped and clean. Apply a GLOSSY BLACK to the car. Scale Coat II is what the author used. Allow to cure a few days. Apply ALCLAD II CHROME on the shell. No need to thin it. Do not spray heavy. Apply in thin coats. The effect is incredible! The car will look like it’s made out of stainless steel. [8D] Don’t stop there, though. Fingerprints will make the finish go dull. [:0] After checking the finish over and if it’s satisfactory, apply 1 to 2 “thin” coats of clear glaze. This will protect the finish as you handle the cars. [:D][8D][;)]
Thanks Antonio.
That DC10 is incredible! Man, if I could even come close. I’ll sure give it a try.
I doubt my hobby shop stocks this type of paint unless its used with RC cars [;)] But, the owner always goes the distance to help me get things. If I have to, I’ll contact one of the retailers or vendors they have listed.
One off topic question. Quite often I see people refer others to back issues of MR. Well, I’m relatively new to the hobby and don’t have back issues. I have checked the Trains index, but it looks like the only way you can see them is to buy a copy. Is this correct?
Rex, don’t ever sell yourself short! You can do it! Painting today is so much easier. One thing I always do: After mixing my paint, just before I spray a model, I spray on a “scrapper” model (like an old Tyco boxcar) to make sure
[1] My paint is not too thick.
[2] The gun distance is right for the particular job.
[3] The gun is not “sptting” from being clogged. (always clean it thorougly!)
[4] And my spray motion speed is not so slow that I get runs.
I’m sorry that I can’t be much help as far as the back issue. My only suggestion would be to contact the Model Railroader staff (info on the main page) and ask if they would be willing to send you a copy of the article if they have no back issues left in stock (having been only been a year, I suspect that they do).
BTW: I should have mentioned. If you go this route (sounds like you will) when you’re ready to spray the GLOSS BLACK paint, add 15% to 20% GLOSS WHITE so that the paint is a glossy grayish-black. Again, experiment with a “scrapper car” first. Your local drug store sells small plastic measuring cups with lines in them, very cheap. This way you can have the same exact mix for each car everytime.
One more thing that I think you’ll find interesting and helpful: First, go to your search engine. (Mine is MSN.) Type in: Alclad 2 Tests by Mike McCleod and click Search. When you get there, make sure you have time on your hands as you read it. The info is Excellent! In your case just
Rex,
To answer your off topic question, here are some alternatives:
Some large city libraries, if they subscribe to MR, have back issues in the stacks. Usually those libraries also have photocopiers available.
Some hobby stores have stacks of back issues, usually for sale at very reasonable prices. Some used book stores also sell back issues of magazines, but prices may be higher.
Trains shows and swap meets often have individuals selling back issues.
Even if you are not a member, you can order photocopies of articles from just about any model railroad or prototype periodical from the vast collection of books and periodicals at the NMRA’s Kalmbach Memorial Library in Chattanooga, TN: http://www.nmra.org/library/
Admittedly, photocopies are cheaper if you are a member.
You can order photocopies of Kalmbach publications from Customer Service at this site. Other publishers usually also sell their back issues, check their Web sites.
There are vendors who advertise in the classified pages at the back of MR who specialize in back issues.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543
Antonio,
Thanks for more info. I’ll take it all. I probably will start this project the first of the week and have the cars ready for when the Chome paint comes in.
Just thought of something. Will this paint come close to matching the stock paint of the Walthers Budd cars? be good enough? I sure would hate to paint all of them.[:(] But, I will if necessary.
I will difintely have a salute to “HIGH GREEN with an E7” if my Southern BLI E7 A/B ever comes in at Tony’s.
Bob,
Thanks for the publication info. I am a new member of NMRA and still learning what its all about. I am going to Birmingham next week and meet with a long time member at the Wrecking Crew site and hopefully learn more about it.
Actually, depending on your application techniques, the paint results might look “better” than what’s on the Walther’s cars. The catch is the the base color. The Jet Black recommended in the article can make it a “tad darker” which is why going with a high gloss Charcoal or Grayish-Black is preferrable. It may seem a bit of a hassle but its worth experimenting with differing mixes. That’s why a measuring cup or jar is recommended.
For “scrappers” a cheap old boxcar or passenger car is great! Almost always everytime I go to a train show or swap meet, someone there usually has old Tyco, Bachmann, or Model Power HO “toy” cars that they either sell dirt cheap, or even give away! [;)]
Mask off half of a “scrapper” and apply the formula, and then Alclad, finishing it with clear glaze. After curing, compare it to the Walther’s cars. Is it Lighter? Darker? Or Right on? Look at the finish in outdoor lighting. [8D][:D]
Then, take your scrapper and mask off the half that you already painted. Now you’re ready to do the other half. Mix the formula, this time with more or less White in the black, depending on if it looked lighter or darker than the Walther’s cars. Note your results. If you’re satisfied with the results, go ahead and mix a completely separate bottle of the Black/White mix. This way if you decide to paint other passenger cars they will all look uniform.[:D][8D][;)][8)]
As you saw on the Alclad website, you can get an incredibly wide variety of metalized finishes. I’m currently working on 4 Bachmann Metroliners. I’m refinishing them into Penn Central. I just painted two of them in the Charcoal formula. In a day or so, I’ll apply the Alclad Chrome.
BTW: The BLI E7s are beautiful looking units. Hope you enjoy! I’ll probably get one next year.
Thanks again Antonio. I guess I need to take a deep breath and get it in motion.
Be thinking what I can do to get this paint off if I screw up.[:-^] [(-D][(-D]
Hey, the prototype Southern E7’s do have a Mars light don’t they? The BLI drawing shows one and the real pictures I’ve seen have it installed on all but one. The reason I asked is that I have had a facination with the Mars light ever since I can remember. Got to have one!!![:D][:D]
Not a problem, you can soak the car in 91% alcohol using a narrow "12 long aluminum pan that you can get at a supermarket. If you are concerened about screwing up, just do more than one scrapper job or even practice on scrap peices of plastic or carboard. The alclad itself sprays so easily. Just put in your airbrush and shoot. Just remember “THIN COATS”. When you put the 1st thin coat, it doesn’t look impressive. Don’t worry, by the the 4th thin coat you will start seeing results! Be patient. Wait a minute between coats.
Interesting point about the E7. In the later years, Southern removed the lower lights, which I assume were “Mars”, on their E units and closed off the opening with what looked like sheetmetal painted white. You can see pictures on www.railpictures.net You’ll see what looks like two sets of lights until you look carefully at the lower one and just see white.
E-mail Broadway Limited and ask them. Let them know that you are a customer! They’ve gotten better at replying to e-mails. More than likely their version would have the working Mars light if this is how the prototypes were delivered.
If you’re actually trying to match the paint on Walthers factory-decorated Budd cars, you have two options. A friend of mine uses Polly Scale’s Flat Aluminum, since their Stainless Steel has a bit of gold in it. Also, if you prefer Floquil, their Platinum Mist seems to be very close to the color Walthers used.
Personally I don’t want to use Alclad or Metalizer on my cars, since then I’d have to go around repainting/redecaling every single car I have! But I’ve been planning on using a very light wash of black on my factory-painted cars to give them more depth and shading, so it might make their finish look a lot more like prototype stainless.
All I can say is WOW!!![8D][(-D][dinner][tup] WHAT RESULTS!
I just sprayed Alclad on two of my Metroliners. I admit that I was a little skeptical but they look sharp! Alclad is definetly “Da Bomb!” (as our younger modelers would say!). Now all that is needed two thin coats of glaze and thats it.
The only thing I’m changing though is that instead of applying a Charcoal Base black, it’s better to use a Glossy Medium Gray if one wants to match the Walther’s cars. Again the key is to practice on scrappers and compare to the Walthers!
I’m in agreement that I wouldn’t want to strip Walther’s cars either as they look good just like they are. But again if I were starting with stripped cars, IMHO the Alclad looks so much more like stainless steel than does the finish on the Walther’s cars. Just go to www.railpictures.net and type in Metroliner on the Key Word search box and you can find some shots of the “Metros” when they were in their “prime” and when they were getting worn.
To get away from the “Brand New” look is easy by dusting thin light coats of weathering colors on top of the clear glaze once it has dried thorougly.
Sorry if I sound a little excited, but these cars came out better then I expected.
Congrats Antonio and thanks for the update. Sounds like you have a good reason to be excited. Oddly, my LHS had the ALCLAD chrome paint, but not the Scalecoat black so I had to order that.
What brand Gloss Medium Gray did you use? I have been told that the brand is a very important consideration when you mix the coats.
I like to use the Testors Metalizer paints, specificly the stainless steel color on passengers cars. After painting and buffing, I coat them with the special Metalizer sealer, then decal them, then use the same sealer to seal the decals. Gives a nice metallic sheen that holds up well over the years!
It’s simple. I have one bottle of Scale Coat II gloss black, the other one Scale Coat II gloss white. Been experimenting with mixing. You actually don’t have to use the Scale Coat brand. The trick is, as long as the finish is GLOSSY as Alclad reflects the undercoat, so there’s nothing wrong with using Testors Model Master. Take a few minutes to read the info from MIke McLeod. The directions to his sight are on one of my previous posts above.
It’s worth it!
The finish is almost “mirror like” which is why after applying a gloss or semi-gloss clear for decals you can apply a thin coat of flat or semi-gloss clear on top of it. IMHO the finish does look like stainless steel. And as I’ve stressed before, use the scrappers but I would now suggest using “scrap passenger cars” instead of freight cars. I’ve noticed that the corrugation is an influence on how the light is reflected off of the cars. [8D]
Old Athearn streamlined cars would be great for the experimenting. Just as with the base colors you can diviide a scrapper in half and experiment with the clear glazes and see if semi-gloss or flat is better.[;)]
BTW: Don’t dismiss the input from KB and ASAmtrak above. There are many ways of making passenger cars look realisitic. Alclad is expensive ($7.50+ in Florida) so that’s why I feel that it’s worth testing a small section on scrapper before emptying the bottle on a couple of cars as you may or may not like the results.
Thanks to all for the input on this. I always like to hear all the options available and then see what fits.
I have to admit that I am too gun shy when it comes to painting rolling stock. As a boy, I tried my luck on plastic models (couldn’t afford spray) and it was a mess. [xx(] Everyone’s post on here has helped me to gain some confidence so I plan to get started the first of the week and give it my best shot. I’ve spent the weekend cleaning and straightening my shop so I can get around without breaking my neck as I promised I would do in another thread. [:D]
Thanks again all, and if there are any other related suggestions, please go ahead and post. I am sure this will help many out there.
Forgot to mention. (though this won’t make it any harder)[:p][:p]
If you decide to go the Alclad route: [;)]
After applying the Alclad Metalizer onto the surface, don’t touch it with your finger tips as the sheen will dull down at the spot (though less noticeable on streamlined fluting). After a few minutes, apply the clear glaze. Once the glaze has cured THEN you can handle the car normally. [8D]
(If for some reason you must handle the car after the metallizing stage, try to pick it up from the bottom with gloved hands.) [8)]
To avoid problems when painting any passenger car bodies, have them elevated off the table’s surface. One of the cheapest and easiest methods: Use two toilet paper carboard rolls pinched vertically between two heavy telephone books. Put the car on top and adjust the rolls so that each is tightly fitting inside the vestibule ends of the car and you’re ready to blast! [C=:-)][dinner]
Some modelers do it in a similar fashion with cut pieces of styrofoam. The more sophisticted ones even construct their own paint stands out of scrap wood or metal.
As stated Alclad is not the only method. So go with what interests you. I’ve liked it because of the near instant results, but again practice first and get through any potholes that you encounter. Same with any metalizer you use! [4:-)][tup][swg]
Take care and please let us know what you do. [:)][:D][8D][;)][8)][swg][tup][C):-)][tup]
One thing everyone seems to have missed is ventilation and respiratory protection. Years ago there was an article in one of the model magazines about a well known (at the time) modeller that had died recently of chemical pneumonia (exposure to hazardous chemical fumes). They traced it back to the model paints he was using in the basement with little ventilation and no respiratory protection. ALL my painting, even with Polly Scale, is done in a vented paint booth while wearing an air purifying respirator (like a military gas mask). Even with water based paints, you can still be breathing paint solids in the air. Remember, if you can smell it, you’re breathing it.
To me, a ‘chromed’ passenger car looks a bit odd. Even though the cars are stainless steel, they do get dirty from time to time, and the shiny finish eventually turns dull. I’ve been using Tamiya ‘flat aluminum’ over a base of their white primer on my passenger cars. Not only does the paint dry quickly, but it goes on smoothly. I wait a day or two between coats to allow everything to “gas out” completely.