Hello I’m just starting in this beautiful hobby, I will be modeling the “Transition Era”, now I will be investing at least $400. in the purchase of a DCC steam locomotive.
I’ve read good and bad reviews on both locos, I would like to have your advice regarding the: customer service, performance, quality and realibility of these 2 locos.
Any advice or comments are welcome and will help me make a wiser choice; I just want to minimize the risk of making a “newbie mistake”.
Thank you.
Serge, I have the old Paragon BLI J-1e with QSI decoder. It does not smoke, and does not have the fancy CV functions as the Paragon II. Only problem I have had with it was the front truck picking turnouts, that was a easy fix. Over all I have been pretty darn happy with the J-1e.
Far as quality, I have had bad luck with BLI as a whole for some reason. (many here have had no problems) But, for what there QC is lacking the Repair Department made up for! All 9 of my BLI’s are up and running with no problems. I must add I run them a lot! All of my BLI’s have well over 200 hours under the boilers!
If or when I buy more steam, I will still look to BLI first.
Cuda Ken
I’ve got an older BLI Hudson with QSI sound. I got it about 3 years ago on a “blowout” sale at Trainworld for $129. It’s a great-looking engine. I love the sound, and it has run perfectly since I took it out of the box.
Serge,
Given the choice - I’d go with the BLI J1e Hudson. (I assume you are looking at the Paragon2 version?) Although BLI does seem to suffer from quality control at times (my last two locos have been in their back shop for repair), they do stand behind their work and fix the issues.
MTH generally run very well right out of the box. However, the detailing isn’t up to where the BLIs are. I have a BLI Mohawk (brass-hybrid) and have been very pleased with the detailing. A friend brought over his MTH Mohawk and it just didn’t look as good.
The other issue with MTH locomotives is their proprietary DCS system. Although the locomotives will work on a DCC layout, you will have limited access to CVs and functions. The only way to fully utilize their locomotives is to purchase one of their DCS systems.
Since I have never bought an MTH locomotive, I can not comment on their customer service. BLI’s customer service, however, has been very good to me.
Tom
If you want to go with DCC, be aware that MTH uses its own system, DCS. Their engines will operate on a DCC system, but will not be fully functional. Here is a link to a thread which discusses this issue in more depth: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/164730.aspx
Regarding your choices: The NYC Hudson was almost always used for passenger service, while the Mohawk was a dual service locomotive. If you want to run passenger trains then either loco would be a good choice. But if you intend to run mostly freight, the Hudson would be less desirable.
I owned a BLI Hudson and it served very well. I sold it only because I am moving away from NYC in favor of B&O. BLI has had some quality issues, but their customer service is first rate and I have heard of no issues with the Hudson. If a Mohawk better suits your plans, why not look at the BLI offering? I am sure it is in every way equal to, if not better than, that from MTH. And of course the BLI Mohawk will be fully functional on DCC.
An alternative is to look for a brass model. Key imported an excellent Mohawk which is sometimes offered on ebay in the $350 to $375 range. I had one which I later sold, that was a beautiful model, DCC equipped and a great performer. If you go that route, you can expect to spend another $100 - $120 for a sound decoder (Soundtraxx Tsunami $95, plus speaker and enclosure) and you will have an excellent model at a competitive cost.
Also, if you like New York Central, don’t overlook the BLI Niagara, which is out of production but may be available somewhere on the market. BLI offers the Hudson, Mohawk and Niagara at a considerable savings in their Refurbished store. These are fully warranteed so you can buy with confidence.
As of earlier this week, BLI’s refurbished engines outlet had several BlueLine Niagaras listed. They would need a Digitrax or NCE or TCS motive decoder added for maybe $45 if you paid to have one installed, but the tooling and details are the same as the older Paragon version. I have two engines from the BLI outlet, a Pennsy J1 2-10-4 (still makes my heart pound) and the Paragon Niagara. I think I recall one or two refurbished Paragon II Hudsons being available this week as well. Full warranty, just fixed, that’s all, and 40% off MSRP.
-Crandell
The BLI Blueline Niagaras are very nice and the sound is quite impressive. The whistle - in particular - is very gutteral and realistic.
As far as decoders, here is BLI’s recommended decoder list for Blueline locomotives, taken from p.9 of their Operator’s Manaul (as of 08/01/08)
Digitrax DZ143PS
ESU LokPilot Micro #52610
Lenz Silver MP
MRC 1650
NCE N14IP
TCS M1P-SH
I installed the Lenz Silver MP decoder in my Niagara, which has just excellent BEMF to it. A bit pricey but that puppy crawls on speed step 001.
I did end up having to send my Niagara into the BLI back shop to eliminate a slight binding issue with one of the drivers. I should be getting back fairly soon.
Like the Hudson, the Niagara was primarily used for passenger service but, sadly, only lasted about a decade before complete dieselization took over on the NYC.
Tom
If you are looking for smoke, go with MTH, no questions asked, and the Protosound 3 system is superb. These locos run fine on DCC, and they are all die cast metal. If you like all the bells and whistles, I would go with the MTH.
However, MTH’s service department is pretty bad, well, its simply terrible actually. The problem is both locos I have purchased run superbly out of the box (something I can’t say for Broadway), however both times, the screw to install the tender coupler was not included. Sometimes it can take months to get in touch with someone at their service department just to get this screw shipped to you. Broadway has a lot of quality control issues but their service department is far superior.
Why on earth these locos don’t come equipped with couplers already installed, I have no idea, but thats the way MTH does it. Installing the tender coupler is easy (if the large screw is included in the package) however installing the front coupler is a real pain.
If I were to buy a Broadway Hudson, I would go with the old Paragon version, I have heard these are much more reliable, and heavier than the newere runs, which is important. But it doesn’t have smoke obviously. Of course to most people on here, that is a positive. I’m in the minority and I like my steam locos to smoke when I get the craving.
If it wasn’t for the coupler problems and the bad service department, I would go with
I dont hesitate to tell you go with BLI. They used to have or are having QSI DCC systems that are compatible. (No smoke…) Thier repair service is first class. They do pay attention to what is being said about them good and bad and work it.
MTH requires their own control system to fully use their engines. Sure you can kick a steamer in the ribs with heels and make it choo on YOUR DCC… but… cough with that smoke, it’s a no go.
MTH does good work with O scale and recently has done good things (I think so…) in some issues over the years.
But I like BLI over MTH and I like Proto over BLI even though Proto tends to need helper engines to shove a proper train uphill.
Again BLI beats Proto in price. With some patience you can “Catch” BLI engines on the net at a discount through their FDT or own warehouse.
Nothing is as important as your first engine. I have thrown engines into the trash can when I realized how much of a junk they really were from time to time and wrote off the expense as a lesson to be learned. I have since grown up and sold them off promptly on Ebay or some other site to hoards of eager willing victims who are waiting weeks or months for a new engine to come out.
Now.
Make sure that you dont get a MRC decoder in your first engine. There is plenty of pain on these forums about it so I wont say any more except that the presence of a MRC decoder is a instant deal killer for me.
Serge,
I don’t have any experience with MTH so I can’t comment on them , but I have one of the original Paragon BLI steamers (PRR m-1a) and I love it. I’ve had nothing but good service from it. No smoke, though, if that’s important to you.
Chris
First off, excellent choice of Roadname. The NYC is a great railroad to model, and very interesting to research. Second, 99.9% of the time you take BLI in this situation because of various factors, plus there is no need to spend $400 or anything like that. A Paragon2 Hudson can run you around $200, a overall better Paragon Hudson anywhere from $100 to $150 if you know where to look.
Certainly MTH can have it’s merits, but until they start offering DCC only equipped engines and get themselves completely out of the O Gauge “style” they have going on, I’ll pass.
For a first steam engine, I’d be tempted to recommend going with a more “all purpose” engine, perhaps a USRA Mikado…
http://www.broadway-limited.com/5153bluelineusraheavymikado2-8-2pandle9510dcsounddccreadyho.aspx
or maybe a 4-6-0…
Shop around and you could probably get both with your $400. Of course nothing wrong with the BLI Hudson, I have one (from the very first run, my first DCC/Sound engine) and it’s a great machine.
I’m one of the strange ones around here who has bought 6 BLI steamers and have never had a quality control problem with any of them. I’ve sworn off Bachmann, Proto, and most other manufacturers because of the high-quality I got for a rock-bottom price.
All of them worked right out of the box and have continued with -0- maintenance issues. One even had two 3ft drops to the floor by my son without associated shattering or complete destruction. Even then it was just a matter of popping the boiler front back in place one time and putting the tender cover back on the frame. That T1 seems indestructable.
Also, with BLI you do have the option of buying a refurbished locomotive direct from BLI for a significant. I’ve done this twice and I have yet to find any issue with them.
I want to thank you all for your generous and so precious advice and comments, they really shedded light on the subject.
Thank you !
Hello, I forgot to ask you one more little question:
On the BLI Mohawk Blueline 4-8-2 loco, can the “rabbit ears” be removed?
Thanks.
Serge,
The BLI NYC Mohawk is not a Blueline series locomotive; it’s a Brass-Hybrid series locomotive. The detailing is beautiful and, yes - the smoke lifters (elephant ears) are removable. (Although I haven’t tried it personally.)
Blueline series locomotives only come with a sound (BLI proprietary) decoder for running on DC. If you want it to operate on DCC, you will need to purchase a motion decoder separately and install it yourself. (Very straightforward to do.) When programming, both decoders are programmed at the same time.
The Brass-Hybrid Mohawk comes with the QSI sound decoder already installed. It’s ready to run right out of the box on address 03. You can also program a 4-digit address (e.g. the locomotive’s number) into it, if you’d like.
Tom
Hm. Those rabbit ears are there for a reason, to lift smoke away from the cab. With out em they wont be Mohawks.
Sure you can probably learn to get rid of them, I would not know how to do it without a exploded parts diagram and instructions.
My favorite engine in terms of usefulness was a pair of BLI NW’s I have had them heat up quite a bit when shifting for a few hours without trouble several dozen cars.
Looking at your past posts I think its because you beat your engines. I would take your recommendations with a grain of salt. I have several BLI Paragon I and II engines both steam and diesel and have not had a problem.
Thanks for the additional infos, they were very much appreciated.
You may be reading to much into me beating the engines. If running them a lot, expecting them to pull what is said they should pull, then I beat them. QC problems I have had is dry center gear on my M1a, it died after 2 hours, Class J worm gear started slipping on motor shaft after 2 hours, New Class J nut falling off driver after 1/2 hour of run time, plugs that would not stay plug in and the PCM Big Boy that would not track? These where QC problems, not me beating them to death.
Most of my problems where with decoders (not BLI I will add) and thanks to Simon 1966 we found that problem.
I still love my BLI’s and there repair department.
Cuda Ken