Also remember we all hear differently, each person dose. You did not want to be a hi-fi sales person with me in the late 60’s before my hearing changed as I could hear beyond what the standard doctor could test including things that we are not soposed to hear in the low range, even after many years of obuse it still bothers my ears if you have one of those electronic things to drive away mice, they drive me buggy but no one else seems to notice them.
Actually, Sheldon, while I enjoy onboard sound more than you do, I don’t think I could enjoy “hours” of train sounds on any hi-fi system. Maybe in reasonable doses but…NOT hours. [+o(]
And, how accoustically “accurate” can you verify older train recordings are - e.g. of steamers? With any audio recording there is good digital and bad digital; good analog and bad analog. How certain are you that you are hearing any in true fidelity?
A lot of times those “action” recordings were captured from a moving vehicle with other cars zooming by. So, you have engine noise from the car(s)…and road noise from the tires and imperfections in the road surface itself…along with wind noise because you’re traveling along a higher speeds…plus the noise of the locomotive in contact with the rail itself…That’s a LOT of extraneous sounds, Sheldon. How much of the “true” chuff or steam whistle sound do you really think you’re hearing when you listen to that?
Personally, I wouldn’t want to hear onboard sound in true fidelity, as it wouldn’t be an accurate representation to the scale that I’m modeling, which is the point I believe Rich is trying to make. While I can enjoy “less-than-perfect” sound coming from my HO Hudson or Niagara, I can appreciate and imagine what it may have sounded like (were I back in the 40s & 50s - listening to one within “reasonable” distance to it) while it was traveling down the track.
Tom
[quote user=“tstage”]
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
I get tired of onboard HO sounds in about 8 minutes…I can listen to train videos/recordings on my home theater system for hours…
Sheldon
Actually, Sheldon, while I enjoy onboard sound more than you do, I don’t think I could enjoy “hours” of train sounds on any hi-fi system. Maybe in reasonable doses but…NOT hours.
And, how accoustically “accurate” can you verify older train recordings are - e.g. of steamers? With any audio recording there is good digital and bad digital; good analog and bad analog. How certain are you that you are hearing any in true fidelity?
A lot of times those “action” recordings were captured from a moving vehicle with other cars zooming by. So, you have engine noise from the car(s)…and road noise from the tires and imperfections in the road surface itself…along with wind noise because you’re traveling along a higher speeds…plus the noise of the locomotive in contact with the rail itself…That’s a LOT of extraneous sounds, Sheldon. How much of the “true” chuff or steam whistle sound do you really think you’re hearing when you listen to that?
Personally, I wouldn’t want to hear onboard sound in true fidelity, as it wouldn’t be an accurate representation to the scale that I’m modeling, which is the point I believe Rich is trying to make. While I can enjoy “less-than-perfect” sound coming from my HO Hudson or Niagara, I can appreciate and imagine what it may have sounded like (were I back in the 40s & 50s - listening to one within “reasonable” distance to it)
Precisely. Sheldon makes reference to “tinny sound”, but the only time that I hear tinny sound is when the speaker is not secured tightly or the enclosure itself is loose and vibrating.
We are not talking here about sitting in your acoustically perfect den listening to Ravel’s Bolero on a pair of $2,000 speakers.
I recently purchased a BLI Paragon 2 steamer, and I love pressing that whistle button and reminding myself of those sounds so familiar to me as a kid near the end of the steam era. No tinny sound to my ears.
Rich
In an enclosed area I can totally understand and agree with that, Sheldon. Consequently, the same would be true if one were sitting along side a large 1:1 double-diamond with trains coming from both directions - one after another, or inside Moffat Tunnel when a SP Cab Forward came barreling through.
I experienced the former a few years back while visiting the old Erie RR station in Marion, OH. There were two sets of double-diamonds approx. 100’ apart. One set was in bad need of replacement and would deflect 3-4" or more as the locomotives and cars rode over the top; producing a very percussive BANG! under each wheel set. I literally stood there with my fingers in my ears. As “real” as that was, I wouldn’t want to replicate that sound on my or anyone else’s layout.
I will also agree with you on the metal wheels. I like the clickity-clack of the wheels rolling over the track joints. It’s not at the volume you would normally hear it if you were standing along trackside but it’s a fair representation of it - as you put it - from a distance. That’s how I view onboard sound. I don’t want the full-effect of “being there” but I can enjoy experiencing - from time-to-time - the representive sounds of the locomotives from the bygone era and railroad that I model.
Tom
And as I have said before, those who enjoy it should go for it, but again, 6-8 of them going at once is a noise I cannot stand.
Actually, I am seriously considering layout based whistles, bells and horns in the locations where they would be used the most - without the chug-chug of steam or roar of a diesel prime mover.
Tinny - put your favorite song on, even using a cheap “HiFi”, and turn the bass all the way down and the trebble all the way up - that is the effect of using a 1" speaker to play ANY sound - the best 1" speaker is barely a mid range driver driver at best…
Sheldon
Interesting. Perhaps the state of the art has advanced from when I was putzing around with it in the 70s.
Is that 1:5 as in a 1/5 size replica? That’s a darn big model!
That I will agree with. I only keep the sound on for locos on my double main line. I mute the sound on all parked locos.
Rich
Yes, scale models that size fly just fine, but as they get smaller from there that do become harder to fly or require modifications.
Worked in a hobby shop for years - my boss was an airplane guy - still a good friend today.
Sheldon
My layout plan has display running or crew running for up to eight trains - sound is just too expensive and complicates too much stuff - like double heading with non sound locos - to have and use selectively.
BUT, if I did want sound, I would use DCC…
The average mainline train is pulled by 3-4 powered diesels or two steam locos - that’s a lot of noise…
Those aspects of modeling are way more important to me than sound.
Sheldon
When I consist locos, I only activate sound on the lead loco to minimize the “noise”.
Rich
Agreed - I have 125 powered units that would need sound decoders and/or need to be speed matched with their mates - for a feature I don’t really like - $12,500 more or less…the whole control system with signaling and CTC did not cost what those decoders would cost.
It takes a fleet that size to power all the trains staged for operations and have “power changes” available in the engine terminal.
Operation, long trains, lots of action - these are my priorities.
Sheldon
Sheldon, you raise a good point. For anyone deep into DC operations with a lot of DC locos, the expense of converting to DCC does not seem worthwhile.
Rich
The solution two a noisy layout is a couple ways
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You can program most decoders to mute after so many minutes of inactivity, and be quiet until they recieve their first command from a throttle
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You can turn down the volume. Personally I cut teh volume to about 2/5 of the max for the engine. But I leave the whistle and bell near full volume.
The problem I have it once you get a train running at a good clip, wheel/track noise and engine chuff on steam just about drown out any horn, whistle, or bell. I wish there was a volume compenstation for when the train is moving at speed.
I always turn mine down - you can’t hear a real loco 100 miles away (normally), so you shouldn’t be able to hear an HO scale loco ont he other side of a 25 foot room. Plus you aren’t making the small speaker issue even worse by overdriving the thing and causing distortion. Those near the loco can hear it, those on the other side of the room hear their locos and not the ones over on the other side.
–Randy
Given that HO is 1:87, a 25 foot room would be 2,175 scale feet, or less than 1/2 mile. I’m old, and I can hear trains much further away than that.
My question concerning Rolling Thunder sub hookups is this:
If there are two engines lashed up, does the sub receiver pick up both engines equally? If so, is the sub volume increased, e.g. doubled? Or is the effect distorted? Is the effect different if both engines are identical compared to two different engines with different sound profiles lashed together?
There are 29 channels in each receiver, so you can set each loco to a unique channel, but it only plays one at a time, the one with the strongest signal.
Randy