I was wondering why BN decided to merge with the Frisco. What is because BN was looking for a southeast “gateway”? Or were they afraid with the looming U.P. merger with MoP and W.P. would have too much competition for BN to compete with U.P.?
I believe BN+SLSF caused UP+MP. The first mention in Trains was in the April 1977 issue. Missouri Pacific was having talks with the Southern in 1976.
A long sickening story made short:
Louis Menk became Frisco’s president in 1962
Menk left Frisco to head Northern Pacific in 1965
In 1966 C B & Q acquired a large block of Frisco stock
The C B & Q stock was inherited by BN in 1970
21 November 1980 BN swallowed Frisco
Just seconds later they began trashing the Frisco
MWH makes a good point, and it suggests that Frisco’s management was well aware of both the trend toward dereg and its responsibility to the stockholders. A look at the map suggests that Frisco was in the same role as Wabash, just located a little further south. Both were heavily dependent on connections but Frisco didn’t have anything to compare to Wabash’s online automobile traffic.
With the 20-20 vision of hindsight, Frisco also made a good fit with BNSF since the Avard-Memphis route had long served as a connection with the ATSF Transcon line.
Mark, are we finished with the Delany forecast, or has he said what’s going to happen next?
There was a mention in a Trains magazine around 1981 that the Arkansas legislature defeated a measure by one vote to help ATSF upgrade the Choctaw across Arkansas.
I remember the big announcement in 1980. I was in high school at the time.
I had just read a story about a Frisco locomotive engineer who greatly enjoyed the work environment and the friendly people. Had nothing but good things to say about the company. His favorite assignments involved running the SD45s.
Two questions:
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How much of the former Frisco remains in the posession of BNSF?
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This may be off topic, but it does concern the Frisco: was there any main reason(s) why Frisco + Santa Fe was denied, aside from the merger “not being in the public interest?” (or whatever was the reason to turn down the proposal)
MWH: Thanks for the thorough response. It’s always nice to learn something new. Again in retrospect, it would be interesting to find out why Santa Fe didn’t go after the Choctaw Route when Rock Island ceased operations in 1980. My guess would be the expense needed to put the line in reasonable shape.
You’re right about connecting traffic. When you originate lucrative traffic like Wabash, you get to call the shots with your connections.
Chris Helt,
1-The BNSF system map shows how much of the SLSF they still have. Click on Springfield Division. North of St. Louis and in Illinois is former CB&Q. This division also includes trackage rights gained from the UP+SP merger. The Tulsa-Dallas+Ft. Worth line is in the Texas Division
www.bnsf.com/tools/reference/division_maps/?menu=5&submenu=0
2-I don’t think ATSF and the SLSF went far enough in their talks to apply for the merger.
Thanks for the link nanaimo 73.
So, basically the merger had to with Frisco’s bottomline of money and staying profitiable? Correct me if I’m wrong here. Also, I have heard when the merger happened the BN employees didn’t care for management style of the Frisco and Frisco employees thought the merger was a “hostile take-over” by the BN. This is what I’ve been told by some BN fans and by ex-Frisco employees. I hope I’m making some sense here!
If the Frisco wouldn’t of merged with BN do you think they would of eventually gone bankrupt or merged with some other railroad?
Mark,
Do you have time to look at
www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=42151
I lived near the ex-RI Choctaw Route in Arkansas from 1982-1989, and many times from 1983-1986 drove the state highway that paralleled it for some distance around Danville. I remember the rumblings about Santa Fe acquiring the line and certainly wished they had, for access to Southern and then-ICG in Memphis. What an opportunity lost!
I think one of the reason Santa Fe didn’t pick up the Choctaw Route had to do with the lack of on-line traffic (especially in Texas panhandle and eastern New Mexico). Also, the Choctaw Route would of been a bridge line for the Santa Fe as it was for the Rock.
Mark,
I was talking about the Choctaw Route west of Amarillo. I should of been a little more specific. And you’re right, I meant “would have” instead of “would of” in the previous post. My bad!
Mark is correct in his posts above.
Amarillo to Tucumcari at the end was a piece of junk.
Mark: Sunbelt & Santa Fe RR…package deal that collapsed with sale of St.L to KC to SP/SSW…Memphis gateway on its own was not going to fly because of the rediculous rate of return needed to pay off the investment. Shortly thereafter, the mergers changed the looks of the playing field.
Thanks for the map link Mark. It’s topics like this that help to expand my knowledge base of railroading.
btw- Just how many of Frisco’s managers “invaded” BN’s offices as the result of the merger, and what impact, good or bad, did they have in the way business was handled on BN?
I’ll tell you one sad thing that went away, and that was the service route between Chicago and Dallas/Ft. Worth. We could take a trailer in at the gate on South Ashland in Chicago for an 11:00 PM departure on Monday and the Frisco would make it available by 7:00 AM on Wednesday. Even John Santa Fe couldn’t do that.
It’s too bad the BNSF doesn’t have that old Alton Route from Chicago to St. Louis. I think it fits nicely into their system and the UP doesn’t seem to have much use for the route.
The Santa Fe took a good look at acquiring the Alton before building their own route from KC to Chicago. The head of the Alton didn’t want to sell. Oh well, the kiss I never had and the things that might have been. Thinking about 'em just makes you sad.