Sometime mid day this derailment occurred near Bainville MT: http://domino.bnsf.com/website/updates.nsf/updates-service-industrial/F770C6FB99BF000386257989001B10C6?Open I just happened to be on the eastbound Empire Builder at the time. We got into Havre MT more or less on time (1 PM) and were told that we were going to wait in Havre due to the derailment - we waited like 8 hours, at which point they told us that at 9 AM in the morning buses were going to take us to Williston ND to meet the opposite Empire Builder. So they are doing a bus bridge. The derailment occurred because the BNSF train hit something - I’ve heard fuel truck, concrete truck, and garbage truck. Point is, they hit something and that caused the derailment. To all you truckers - STOP going around gates!!! People understand that the derailment happened. But a lot of us are pretty upset by how it was handled. I’m writing this right now from the bus, people are pretty cranky on the bus isn’t not nearly as comfortable as the train, and the heat in this bus isn’t even keeping up with the -15 F temp outside.
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The derailment happened almost at the MT / ND border. Amtrak stopped at Havre, MT. Train could have kept going till Wolf Point, MT, and the next station after Wolf Point is Williston ND. However, we were told that the train was not continuing to Wolf Point because Havre was the last staffed Amtrak station before the derailment. Staffed? Who cares! It’s not like the agent is going to rebook you or anything… everybody was staying on the train, except the people who went to the bars! The only thing we cared about was that the train stopped by a bar! Point is they could have taken the train to Wolf Point, and then just did a bus bridge between there and Williston, not too far of a distance. But they decide to bus us from Havre, which is over 300 miles by bus. What is the sense in this?
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Detour - We could have reversed back 100 mi to Shelby, MT, then taken the line from there to Great Falls, joined th
48.142383° -104.368048° - that’s the exact location of it. Just drove by the wreck in the buses.
More info: http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/train-hits-semi-on-montana-hi-line/article_455b5c32-21c5-504b-8411-ccd66fdcd565.html
You know, another thing that really angers me about this is that I’m a big advocate of passenger rail, and there are a number of people on that train, including first time riders, that were saying “I’m never gonna ride the train again”. It’s just disappointing to hear that.
That’s why I believe that Amtrak really needs to step up in it’s handling of situations like these.
[(-D] Amtrak management on that divisiondon’t want to get outside in that evil cold ??
Jim
The only reason Amtrak might have run the bus bridge from Havre rather than Wolf Point is the availability of buses in Havre versus the availabiliyof buses in Wolf Point. There might have been other reasons why Amtrak couldn’t have moved any quicker than they did.
There were no buses in Havre - too small a town, buses had to come from great falls MT to havre. Also, there were buses in Williston that picked up the westbound people and bridged them going in the opposite direction. If the train had gone on to Wolf Point they could have just sent buses from Williston to Wolf Point to pick up the passengers. So either way, they had to send buses in from somewhere.
And yes, there could have been other reasons why Amtrak didn’t move quicker, but as a passenger being stuck (we’re on the train again, but approx 23 1/2 hours late now…), I think Amtrak should communicate to us the reasons WHY they didn’t move faster… that is of course, assuming there is a good reason.
Look on the bright side…you could have been a passenger on the Costa Concordia!
Airlines aren’t much better in explaining delays or cancellations. What’s even worse is when the delay or missed connection is due to weather, you have to pay for your own lodging after you re-book for a flight the next day.
Do you KNOW what the other carriers crew base is to support the detour move over the alternate route. You KNOW the Amtrak Crew is NOT QUALIFIED on the alternate route and even if that have sufficient Hours of Service time remaining to make the move they will need Conductor and Engineer pilots over the alternate route. Having no idea of the normal operations over the alternate route, I would not be surprised that there is not a sufficient crew base to support ANY extra operations over that route - carriers tailor their crew bases to what is required to support normal operations. If there is only a local or two on that territory there may be at best a skeletal extra board to support vacation and/or illness vacancies on the regular jobs…no one available for a pilot move.
The Empire Builder uses ‘high level’ equipment - is there sufficient clearance for this equipment on the alternate route?
There is a whole lot of considerations involved in detour moves than just the fact that the track goes between the points.
Railroading is not based on could have, would have, should have. It takes a lot of cooperation and knowledge among many levels of management and employees - a level of cooperation and knowledge that gets compounded many times over once a detour situation over one or more additional carriers is necessary. Cooperation that may not exist with the ADDITONAL CARRIERS as they have no OBLIGATION to honor a detour request.
I cannot answer for what Amtrak did or did not do - they will have to explain their own actions - all I am trying to say is that detouring trains is not as simple as your rant would make it seem.
[quote user=“Sawtooth500”]
- Detour - We could have reversed back 100 mi to Shelby, MT, then tak
Here is the link Sawtooth 500 provided to the BNSF “Service Advisory”:
http://domino.bnsf.com/website/updates.nsf/updates-service-industrial/F770C6FB99BF000386257989001B10C6
One thing for sure that Truck owner had better have some fisrt class Insurance Coverage.[|(][|(]
You can bet the BNSF Legasl Deprtment will be deep in his pockets…
[:‘(][:’(]
I am going on Empire Builder in the summer.
It’s a really nice train - just got home - pulled into Chicago 27 hours late almost to the minute! But I’ll tell you this situation was a real anomaly… definitely not normal.
I still think Amtrak could have just done a better job handling the situation then they did, but in all fairness what happened (the derailment) was totally out of Amtrak’s control.
I hope BNSF railroad gets alot of Money from the Trucking Company cause this wreck?
I was at the Seattle Terminal cashing in my Empire Builder ticket for two days following because I knew what was coming to hit us and I wanted a full refund just in case. As it turned out, I couldn’t even get out of my garage to get to the station on Thursday, so it was a wise decision.
As I was dealing with the agent, the head agent went onto the mike and announced to the whole waiting room that due to a major obstruction on the line the Number 8 was not traveling beyond Havre and that there was no way to get around the obstruction. Period. Well, I guess they found a way.
Suddenly, there was a line 15 deep waiting for an agent, all of whom were angry, and full of questions. I rather pitied the agent I was dealing with once those people got to him. No advice was forthcoming as to where to overnight. People were on their own. There seemed to be some room on the next day’s train, though, and so people were being allowed to transfer their reservations without charge, at least.
I never knew what happened to the train until just now. Wow!
question: could all the shippers / receivers that were delayed also sue the trucking company? That would really put the fear of ----- into the truckers and trucking companys. ??
I was supposed to take the Builder from MSP to CHI that morning at 750AM. Ended up getting bused the 8-10 hours. Sucked.
Buxtehude: Your experience is a great example of how I think Amtrak could have better handled the situation.
I was on the phone with their guest relations department talking about it - I simply mentioned to them how they should give passengers more information because people liked to stay informed - the lady, she was really nice, but she said that generally they did the contrary - give people less info so that people don’t freak out.
Let me put it to you like this - I used to be an airline pilot. In the airline world, people freaked out about ANYTHING. A good number of people have a fear of flying.
Now, a fear of trains? No, people don’t really have that same fear of trains… on the actual train we all knew it was a derailment, and everybody was totally cool and calm about it. In fact, of all the people on the train I talked to, not a SINGLE person expressed any kind of safety concern about the fact that a train just ahead of us derailed…
Oh, need I mention, Amtrak wants to “protect” people from freaking out, yes here we are, like 4 busloads of people being bussed to another train, and then literally 50 feet from the road we see some crumpled BNSF locomotives in the ditch, and a bunch of intermodal containers strewn and split open with boxes everywhere? Even looking at this, I didn’t hear anybody talk about safety concerns! Everybody was just gawking at the wreck more out of curiosity than anything else…
Point is Amtrak should re-evaluate it’s policies and procedures here. They could have done a much better job handling this!
That’s been a recurring complaint about passenger rail - and the subject of numerous articles, essays, and letters in Trains - here in the US for at least 60 years now, and for Amtrak for all of its 40 years of existence. Why should we realistically expect it to improve ?