I am building a layout with one main operating with DC, and the other set DCC. I would like to be able to have a DC powered consist to cross over to the DCC main on a section of track, if that is possible. Of course nothing will change regarding the locomotives’ power system, but I would think by changing the power source on that section of track that it should work. It seems to me that as long as the wiring was adequate, and blocked properly, it should work. Does that sound right? Thanks.
Mike
Under no circumstances can DC and DCC power be in the same track.
Only certain DCC systems can run a DC loco, and then it’s not really all that great. So there is really no reason to move the DC train over to the DCC track.
If you want to use both, your best best is to get a DPDT Center Off toggle and wire it so that the entire layout is DC or the entire layout is DCC. Or keep a completely isolated DC loop. Crossing gape between the two can damage the loco, the DC power pack, and the DCC booster. Just - don’t.
–Randy
Hello All,
Here’s just a few previous posts…
How to hookup ~ DC + DCS + DCC together
Wiring Layout for both DC & DCC
Wiring layout for both DCC and DC
I keep frying decoders when running on DC
Happy reading and…
Hope this helps.
Post Script:
The only way I could envision what you are proposing is having one loop on one control system and an angled crossing over the other loop with the other control system.
Neither of these control systems would overlap.
BUT…and it’s a big but…If one piece of rolling stock jumps the rails at the crossing it’s literally and figuratively “lights out”!!!
HTH, J.J.
I have a friend who wire his main line so he could divert just the main to regular DC and still run the rest on DCC. So it is possible to do that. Now I have no idea how much crazy wiring went into that but I know the person in question is a very competent and advanced modeler.
As to switching one siding from DCC to DC I don’t think it will be terribly complex. All you would need to do is insulated (through plastic railjoiners or other meathods) the siding and have a switch to flip between DC and DCC power.
Do note, my friend I mentioned earlier admitted he NEVER used his DC main, and though it’s a good idea, he found it to be a bit overkill. So only do all this double wiring for DC if you’re certain you will use it.
it sounds like you know what you’re talking about. How electronic savy are you?
presumably you understand that there are problems if the metal wheels ever bridge the gaps between a DC and DCC block.
not sure if you’re talking about a crossing
or a section of track being either DC or DCC.
it’s possible to make both tracks of the crossing isolated from one another or isolate the entire crossing and have some detection that powers the crossing with either DC or DCC.
it would also be possible, using detection and turnout positions to have a common section of track that is powered from either DC or DCC.
good luck
If what you want to do is like what Greg suggested it might work. A drawing or diagram of what you are trying to do would help, otherwise Randy’s advice is dead on. In no way should DC ever connect to a DCC system, even momentary would do damage.
Mel
My Model Railroad
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
Bakersfield, California
I’m beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
I don’t think the OP is referring to a crossing (like Greg’s example) but a crossover or section of track to migrate from one main to another. Either way it’s a bad idea.
Yes, separate mains could cross one another safely. However, if there should ever be a derailment right at the crossing and the metal wheels on the rolling stock short the DC to the DCC …poof…there goes your DCC system, DC system, or both.
Mike, run one or the other (i.e. either/or) using a DPDT switch if you’d like but do NOT run them simultaneously. Just don’t do it…
Tom
not sure that either system would be damaged if either or both have short circuit protection.
i’m sure many would not want to find out, but that’s what it’s there for
I can run my lay out in DC, or DCC, but I NEVER run both at the same time.
I know to the OP this seems like a simple task, having one cross the other, and if he wishes to pursue it, and comes up with a system or series of toggles, relays, electronics, etc., to pull it off, it’s his railroad and equipment that will suffer any damage if something goes wrong, NOT mine.
All I say is good luck.
I don’t understand why he wants to do this [:|] Having a main line for each system, and to go from one to the other, or even to cross the other. NOPE.
Mike.
I believe that the OP wants to have a section of track between the inner and outer loops that can be changed from DC to DCC. That could be done with a toggle switch. Section of track would probably have to be as long as the train. train would enter from the DC side with the section of track set for DC. Train would probably stop within the section of track and the power would be switched to DCC and the train would then proceed to the DCC loop. So yes it could be done, but the overall idea has dangers as Randy has pointed out, and I wouldn’t do it.
What do you mean by “set” ? Is this a double track main? one main DCC and the other DC ?
This sounds to me like the OP wants to move a DC powered train, off the DC track, and, move over to the DCC controled main. ??
I guess we’ll have to wait until he responds to his thread, and find out exactly what he wants to do.
Mike.
I agree with Randy. Don’t do it. Don’t even try.
Put decoders in all your DC engines, if you must, and run pure DCC. Or, run just DC in compatibility mode.
When I ran my first DCC train, I took the old power pack on put it under the table. I never went back, and never wanted to.
About nine years ago our club wiped out an NCE Power Pro five amp booster because we thought we could do that. Our home made DC throttles were capable of 2.5 amps.We use to run two or three locos at one time when we ran DC. We could match diesels.
We never allowed DC and DCC after that.
Rich
Here is a track diagram of what I propose.
!https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/40866434723_6eabb00f59_h.jpg
The only reason I want to do something like this, it’s because most of my locos were purchased in the 80s and 90s, and I don’t have the resources or time to put decoders in most of them (over 200). I plan on getting decoders for many of the older engins, but that will take years to accomplish. At this time, I have just about 10 DCC equipped engines, but I have a system and would like to use it.
Another option may be to wire all of it for DC, then change over to DCC at some point after I have enough decoders installed in the plder equipment. I don’t want to do that, because it would prohibit me from using a group of locos for many years to come.
Mike
If you run in DC mode for your DC locomotives and switch the entire layout from DC to DCC to run your DCC locomotives it very doable. I operate like that too.
I use a 12 volt DPDT relay to switch the rails from my DCC Controller to my DC Power Pack. To insure no screwups the relay is powered by the Accessory power from the DC Power Pack. When I turn on the DC Power Pack it automatically disconnects the DCC Controller and connects the rails to the DC Power Pack.
That would work for you also, but you can’t run DCC locomotives when you are in DC mode.
Mel
My Model Railroad
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
I think if your willing to put the fpeffort nessesary for installing partial DC on your layout, it may be worth it. However you NEED to be VERY CAREFUL not to mess up any wiring and blow up your DCC stuff.
You may want to evaluate wheather it’s a better use of your time to make a complicated DC/DCC system or just put some time into adding decoders to your locos. Remember you can always run DC engines with your DC system using address 0.
If you chose the hybrid DC/DCC way, put time into doing it right. You MUST do it correctly, take ZERO shortcuts!
So, wire your lay out so you can run one or the other, but DON"T try mixing them.
As I mentioned in my post, I can go DC, or DCC. When I built the lay out, I wired it using a buss, and feeders, and divided into “blocks”, like you would for DC cab control, only I gapped both rails. I didn’t use common rail method, as many DC cab control lay outs do.
When I want to run DC, I unplug the DCC system I use, flip toggle switches, and plug in the DC throttle.
I was/am the same as you, all my decent locos were DC. Now it’s been a few years, I have aquired some DCC locos, and slowly installed decoders in the best running DC locos I have.
I pretty much just run in DCC now. It’s been a couple of years since I ran the lay out on DC, but I have the option to do so, when I wish.
And you CAN run DC locos on a DCC system, on my Digitrax, I set the address of the DC loco to “00”. I’m not sure about other systems, there was a thread recently about this.
With my lay out on DCC, I found out I can run a DC loco, on address “00”, and also run a DCC loco with it’s own address, and have seperate control of both locos.
If you try mixing, running both DC and DCC at the same time, your asking for trouble, expensive trouble.
Mike.
this looks like an intriguing problem. Part of the challenge in that the route can be either DC or DCC. It’s only when that bottom left turnout is routed to the bottom DC track do you want all the blocks in blue switched to DC.
i like the idea of using dpdt latching relays that can reverse the polarity to control Tortoise switch machines. A diode matrix approach can be used to route a pulse to the relays to select a route. The same approach can also be used to control additional relays that power those blocks with DC or DCC. (of course a diode matrix would make route selection easier even w/o DC).
a hazard is a DCC locomotive running thru a turnout from a non-diverging end bridging the gaps between DCC and DC. Additional relays could also be used to create stopping blocks on the DCC sections adjacent to the turnouts. (make long enough to handle keep alives).
If you are interested in doing dual mode DC OR DCC this is the way I wired my layout, automatic switching . . . . no way to screw up.
Click to enlarge
I went with a DC relay and a full wave bridge rectifier instead of an AC relay (the Accessory output from my MRC DC Power Pack is AC) is to prevent the AC buzz of the relay when running in DC mode.
Mel
