I’m feeling a sudden surge of interest in the UK and its railways lately - ever since Trains.com emailed me a link to a new marketing partner who was selling prints of all the great paintings Terence Cuneo did for BR in the 1950s. So a couple of questions for those who are modeling British prototypes:
Is the dominant scale OO or HO?
Is there much electrical and track standard compatibility between British-manufactured stuff and American stuff, or are the systems designed for radically different flange sizes and electrical specs?
The dominant scale here in the UK is OO-4mm to the foot but the more recent models should run on smaller code track,say 75 or 83.Code 100 should allow anything OO to run.
Don’t expect really detailed models like you get in the States,that has’ent really happened over here yet,one of the reasons I changed to HO American some 10 years back.
British OO trains run fine on American HO track with regular DC or DCC control systems. I run some of my old Hornby with an MRC powerpack and some of the newer locos that have DCC sockets with my Digitrax system. Hornby and Bachmann Branchline, the main manufacturers of OO scale trains, get their stuff from China. The detail quality of the latest models has improved significantly, though perhaps not quite upto what you expect to see over here in the US.
The dominant scale is definitely OO. Like the ther said, don’t expect ‘life-like’ models nor expect too much technology either! They just started really getting into DCC now…and everything aren’t eactly standardised either! There is small variations in scale with different manufacturers such as Hornby and Markin even though everything all called ‘OO’. Not much selection either…it’s really old school…I would stick with HO if I were you…the OO school has a completely different trend of thoughts!
These guys are looking at the toy market… same as looking at Mehano or some of the older stuff.
Look at DJH and many others and you are looking at incredible detail etched brass… the drawback (or good thing depending on your viewpoint) is that you have to put it together and paint it yourself. If you like building your own we have had things equivalent to japanes/korean brass since the 70s.
We also started on “P4” which became “S4” back in the 70s, if not the late 60s… the modelled track gauge is 18.83mm which is correct for 4mm to the foot. Never have worked out why let alone how to measure 0.03mm [%-)]
The way the serious British modelling market is there isn’t a large market for DCC or sound as ready to run… we would pretty much expect to buy our own preferance and fit it ourselves as we built.
Wheel profiles in RTR modles are finer than NMRA standard and S4 is close to actual scale.
trackwork… if using chaired track you can get 00 individual chairs to slide onto the rail… the bolt heads and keys are modelled… is that detailed enough?
You pays your money and takes your choice.
I like the shift to American because it’s a whole new world for me to learn about.
…and the CNW rolled on the correct side of the tracks [:D]
You’ve put your finger on the source of my interest - British railroading and American railroading are very different. The differences are striking - particularly the signalling systems and the train density.
I visited the layout of an Engish modeller and he had what I am almost certain were Hornsby Dining Cars. Each table in the cars had a lighted lamp. That’s pretty detailed.
I’m building a half US diesel, half British steam layout in HO and OO respectively, with continuous running and a scenic backdrop to separate the two. Works fine and gives me plenty of modelling scope. No electrical or track compatibility problems at all.
To illustrate my point about the improvement in the Hornby locos, here is a British Rail class 8 0-6-0 shunter visiting my yard in Illinois. The model has factory applied piping, which in the past would have been molded on. A bag full of detail parts that I have not as yet applied. DCC socket. And I feel much better paint than I have seen on my older models. The wheel treads are also much finer. This was purchased in 2005 and represents I think current Hornby efforts.
British signalling practice is extremely specific as a result of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 and loads of stuff that followed. No major diversion from those practices occurred until probably the 1980s. That is not to say that there was no development. The big change from the 1980s is that you will see far more facing points, fewer trailing points and much more bi-directional working.
If you think of going ahead PM me your basic ideas / questions.
Thanks - I appreciate that. There are some excellent sites on British signalling out there.
I know there are a lot of hobbyists in the UK - are there any publishers who specialize in detailed books about specific railroads - books that would include information like diagrams of interesting junctions and stations, photographs of key points, that sort of thing? I was just reading L.T.C. Rolt’s “Red for Danger” and the Settle-Carlisle line on the Midland seemed like a very interesting prototype - certainly sounded like a lot of scenery and heavy engineering work.
How much money do you have? Plus do you have a room big enough for your own library?
Settle Carlisle… David Jenkinson and Bob Essery may be said to have “covered” it way back in the late 60s / early 70s (Don’t recall exactly, I’m getting ancient)… LOADS of articles in one of Model Railway News, Railway Modeller or Model Railway Constructor. I probably have them somewhere… that is “somewhere”.____[banghead] STACKS of books on the S&C… text, pics, layout plans, signalling, riding the trains… … … There’s videos as well… SNORE!
What is your specific area of interest? Rolling trains or station layouts? Era? Passenger or freight?
Um… there are also some rubbish sites on British Signalling…
Ian Allan do an excellent guide to British Signalling in several updated editions. You’d almost certainly find older ones on E bay and the latest at their own site. The problem for you (as for most UK modellers0 would be understanding how to apply the theory to the application. Especially with that big 1980s divide… our railways are getting to look less and less like they used to extremely fast… and that is on the ground not just the Disneyland paint schemes.
What sort of space do you have available?
The line(s) to Buxton might be more suitable / varied / not done so much. (Again there was an excellent model of one of the Buxton stations (the terminal) in MR (IIRC) years ago.
I’ll go see if you PMed me… You haven’t yet… can work here if people don’t min
Anyone in North America interested in British modelling should look up the British Railway Modellers of North America website. They (we) have lists of dealers in North America that carry British trains. There are a large number around Toronto and a few around Vancouver. There are al;so lots of magazines, but they may be hard to get in the U.S.
Recent OO trains are quite compatible with NMRA track, although maybe not completely compliant. Older ones had their own ideas and might or might not fit through frogs. The major manufacturers make trains for 16.5mm track even though the rest of the stuff (bodies, structures) are to OO scale. And there are groups modify the wheels to scale distance.
British tie (sleeper) spacing is completely different from US tie spacing for a start… so the simplest solution to whether UK prtotype stock in 00 will run on track is to buy Peco British 00 track. The two are designed to go together. Peco is industry standard.
All you have to do then is to decide all the usual criteria like era, traffic, location…
I was thinking of something with a focus on the signalling - a stretch of line with a signal box (possibly two), and a pair of loops (in the American, rather than the British sense) or a rear connection with staging at either end - so something fairly long and narrow. The operational focus would be on the signal boxes. I was thinking it would be interesting to build a truly interlocked set of signals, passing loops (the British kind, this time), and crossovers - but even a small interlocking frame is a big job, so I would want to keep the trackage simple. The whole point would be to model operations from the signalman’s perspective, rather than the driver’s. I think with a smaller operation, and the frequent train movements, that this would be a lot more interesting in the UK than it is in America.
The era that interests me is pre-Grouping, roughly WWI. I find the motive power on a lot of the northern lines to be particularly pleasing - the Jones engines from the Highland Railway, the Caledonian, the Midland, and the North British. I gather from some of the reading I’ve done (the Board of Trade investigation into the Quintinshill wreck, for example) that fast and frequent operation was not limited to the south of England, but was a feature of most railways in England.
Not detailed? The latest Hornby is produced in the same factories as bachmann UK & US! The Hornby class 50’s’ 08’s and 31’s have opening doors, working fans in the roof etc. Admittedly DCC is a little slower than in the states but really only a year behind. I can’t think of many locos produced in the last 2 years that aren’t DCC ready. Bachmann is producing the 66 with sound for 25% less than an atlas dash8 and still £10 cheaper than an athearn sd45 and the 66 has an ESU chip in it not a slightly odd MRC one.
When it comes to steam locos from the early 1900’s you are really in kitbuilding territory, look up Mainly Trains, www.mainly****trains.com that will give you some idea of what’s available. There is so much produced by small cottage industries that you will have to hunt it out. Search for societies linked to the company you want to model on google and try this as a start point, http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/
