There is a bit more on UK train numbers here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_reporting_number
(Class 3 used to be parcel trains, now it’s ‘over 75mph’ freight - which probably amounts to the same thing really e.g. the EWS Walsall - Scotland parcel trains. Class 9 is now used for Eurostar trains - unfitted freight trains are now extinct).
I’d put money on 1A40 being the Penzance - London sleeper train too…so presumably the usual class 57 wasn’t available ?
Tony
When were the latest sleeping cars constructed?
Aye twas the sleeper and to paraphrase Black Sabbath:
“Spotters gathered in thierrrrrrrrrrrrrrr massssssssssseeeeeeeeeesssssss (Give it some welly Ozzy)
just like witchesssssssss at black masssssssseeeessssssss”
Top n Tailed last night. However, enthusiasts there were none. There was some small discussion on headcodes a few pages back in the thread and Virgin have also run trains under the Class 9 as an experiment.
The current Mk3 cars were built 1982-1984 (and given the periodic attempts to get rid of sleeper trains altogether, they’re almost certainly the last of their breed in the UK).
Tony
The last British Sleeper Stock were the cars labeled “Nightstar” and were constructed for a failed overnight companion to the Eurostars. None ever operated in the designed service and were eventually sold to Via in Canada where they now equip some eastern trains.
I wasn’t counting the Nightstar cars because they never ran in UK service (there was some test running). The order was cancelled while they were being built by Alstom in Birmingham - so yes they are the latest (and probably the last ! ) constructed in the UK but not the latest to actually run in service here.
Tony
As it is, half the MK 3 sleepers have already been sold off to preserved railways who use them as volunteer accomodation! Seems a bit of a waste - you’d have thought they could have converted them to day coaches. Some were also sold to the Danish Railways but I gather those cars have also returned to the UK.
I seem to recall that when the Mk3 sleepers were built they could not justify building enough of them to cover all the routes on which sleepers ran, so they axed some routes. But since many of the Mk3 sleepers have become surplues you’d have thought they could have at least tried reviving some of the axed routes rather than just let the cars site idle.If I remember rightly the Bristol - Edinburgh sleeper servcie went over to Mk3 but was later axed.
I think a few operators have looked at converting sleepers to day coaches, but the costs were too high - and there’s all the ex-VWC Mk3s around now.
It mainly seems to be politics that’s keeping the Scottish and Cornish sleepers alive these days - faster daytime trains and low-cost airlines have eaten away the market for the other routes. The poor rolling stock utilisation and high servicing costs don’t help either.
Tony
Do the Scottish and Cornish sleepers compete better with fast daytime trains and low-cost airlines, or are these operations heavily subsidized?
Thanks
There was recently an attempt to dispense with the Cornish sleepers (distance only around 200-250 miles), but was dropped after political pressure and adverse publicity.
The distance is hardly economic for a sleeper service, so one wonders about its long-term future (if any). The Scottish sleeper service is double the distance, but again the costs vs revenue disparity may well determine its future.
The Scottish Sleeper is funded by the Scots Parliament. They will determine its future.
n.b and the distance from Padd to my part of Cornwall is 300 miles.
Cogload’s distance correction is accepted with good grace.
germanium’s comment is accepted with equally good grace. Mind you the county is arther longnthin, so 250 aint that far away.
Question is - will we have a railway in 5 years? Probabley not.
Being a little alarmist are’nt we Mr. C.?
Every so often this story rolls around - it did so before privatisation and will continue to do so. There are elements within the upper echelons of the civil service who suggest that the treasury might be better off if the rail network was pruned, and this rumbles on for a bit in the national press until it’s dropped in favour of lost whales or similar.
The closest we’ve ever come was the Serpell Report and that fell flat, partially due to the very pro-road Thatcher government realised that the electorate would’nt swallow such a scything blow to the network.
Mind you, Tory B Liar does whatever George tells him to, and we know that George does’nt like passenger trains…
Do the remaining sleeper routes still have clubcars? What about breakfast? When I rode the London-Glascow sleeper in 1962, I remember getting a drink the bar car before retiring and was served “tea and biscuts” before arriving, I think at the compartment. Enjoyed the overnight ride thoroughly, quite comparable to the best in the USA, including the Super Chief and the Broadway.
In a magazine that Simon Reed sent me (thanks a million Simon), there is a little blurb about Isambard Kingdom Brunel. Now there, is an interesting man! The magazine article mentions his name with that of Churchill, as far as influential people in Britain is concerned. Has anybody read a good biography of the man?
Thanks
I agree with Simon on this one - the political fallout from pruning anything in Cornwall would be much too high (it was only a half-hearted attempt to kill the sleeper - closing lines is waaaay higher up the political pain scale…)
Reaching back into the memory, I can’t remember any significant line closures since the ones in the 1970’s (e.g. Bridport - Maiden Newton and Haltwhistle - Alston) other than the light rail conversions in Tyneside, Manchester, Croydon etc.
Inverness - Kyle of Localsh was proposed for closure back then (but was refused), and of course the Settle & Carlisle has escaped the axe more recently - we’ve had a good few line re-openings since then too.
If the politicians haven’t got the stomach to put the Stockport - Stalybridge passenger ‘service’ (one train a week in one direction only!) out of it’s misery, I think it’s very unlikely anything more ambitious would get through the closure process.
Tony
(and don’t you think ‘Haltwhistle’ is a great name for a railway station [:)] )
If you type ‘Isambard Kingdom Brunel biography’ into Google lots of stuff should come up, there’s a bit here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/brunel_kingdom_isambard.shtml and http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/society_culture/industrialisation/brunel_isambard_01.shtml
He came second to Churchill in a poll the BBC conducted a while ago where over a million people voted for their ‘Greatest Briton’ from shortlist of ten - the results are here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/programmes/greatbritons.shtml (and I’ll probably never understand how ‘Diana, Princess of Wales’ got on the shortlist, let alone to third place…)
In civil engineering, railways and ship design he was pioneering engineer. He understood from the start the potential of high speed train travel, which is why he opted for 7 foot gauge on the GWR because he felt that the greater stability it afforded would be essential for the sort of speeds he envisaged. For years the GWR in broad-gauge days ran the fastest trains in the world - and of course the same route hosted the UK’s first 125mph train services in the 1970’s (still running over the famous flat-arch brick bridge at Maidenhead, which some people predicted would collapse under the - very light - weight of the locomotives around at the time it was built in the 1830’s !)
Tony
(I’ll leave it to Cogload to eulogise about the Royal Albert Bridge [:)]) )
And you’re familiar with Welsh pronunciation?? 10 out of 10 for “W” but 0 out of 10 for “LL” - try putting the tip of your toungue on your top gum immediately behind your front teeth, and exhale around it.
Try it, Sally traffic does Llanelli and Llangollen very, very, well.
M
Owlsroost - don’t you mean “7 feet” for the gauge ??