That is indeed what I meant, and that is indeed where the term “navvies” comes from.
Dave - many of our bigger urban areas now have an intensive suburban railway system on the mainland European model. In some cities - Manchester, Sheffield, Nottingham and Birmingham/Wolverhampton - this network is complemented by light rail systems although the Government has recently turned it’s back on further expansion of light rail. Given the tremendous success of light rail elsewhere in the world, including the US, this is a peculiar decision.
Tyne and Wear, like London Underground, is a bit of a mix and match. It follows many of the established precepts of light rail in terms of a very intensive service with closely distributed stations, yet it runs on former BR lines (and, in the case of the Sunderland extension, shares Network Rail tracks). The infrastructure remains very much “heavy rail.”
It’s a fascinating system and, to say that it is nearly 30 years old, has stood up extremely well to the passage of time. Although it’s cars are dated compared to, say, Nottingham they are still perfectly acceptable.
I did get back to the source of American Civilization (Great Britain) before moving to Israel and had the real pleasure of renewing my aquaintance with the classic Blackpool trams and also rode the first of the new semi-light rail operations, Docklands and Tyne and Wear. But I am very happy now that I had sampled British steam in the land of the invention of the steam locomotive while main line steam passenger trains still were around, behind both a Gresley A4 and a Southern Bullard Pacific. Also, I suppose the Pullmans with their tea service are not around any more. I didn’t come across any on my last visit. Rode both the Bournmouth Bell and the Brighton Bell, the latter the multiple-unit Pullman equipment.
For North American readers, a British Pullman was NOT A SLEEPING CAR. It was analagous to a USA Parlor car, with refreshments usually included in the fare. Seating was two on on side one on the other, with facing seats and a table between, on which the refreshments were served. Exterior paint was usually chocolate and cream, if my memory serves, and the interiors green plush with decorations on the seats and varnished woodwork everywhere else. There were all-Pullman trains and sometimes one or two on a regular train.
I did note on my last visit that there were still first-class and second-class coaches on many trains. But I understand that some of the private services are now all one-class.
Tony - it’s myself (manager for a home shopping company), Gordon Atkinson (manager for a company that makes Sonar equipment) and Tim (DRS driver) so far. Interested? Send a message off-group if so.
Afraid so - the last one (Manchester-Euston) stopped running some years ago.
First class (and ‘silver service’ dining on some trains) is still around on long distance services, but most local/secondary/commuter trains are standard class only - and have been since the 1980’s at least.
FM Rail has recently repainted a set of ex-Virgin 1st class Mk2 cars in the old 1960’s diesel ‘Blue Pullman’ livery for upmarket charter train use - http://mark-herriott.fotopic.net/c820239.html
I would guess that the term “heritage railway” is now used for preserved lines - these are usually operated by volunteers and open to the public. The Severn Valley Railway and the Llangollen Railway would be two that spring to mind, both have been around for many years. There are probably hundreds ranging from twin-track near mainline setups (the Great Central Railway) to small dockside operations attached to another museum (the Bristol Industrial Museum) - if you type any of these into google.co.uk you should find plenty of information, they all have websites.
Basically a railway that runs older trains or trains that in the main are not running on the main line any more. Many trains that run on heritage lines cannot run on the main line of the main network due to more stringent regulations. Some loco’s however are able to run off a heritage site onto the mainline because they are main line certified.
Running a loco on a heritage railway is slightly different to running it on a main line. Heritage railways tend to be short and mainly for the tourist. The link above will take you to a preserved railway that runs both steam and diesel trains.
Oubliette - I assume that you’re the same person that has expressed an interest in the Alco S1 at Peterborough on the UK Alco group site.
If so - keep an eye on the site. The group committee are meeting in York on Saturday and hope to be able to announce a meeting for all interested parties shortly afterwards.
There may be a couple of “heritage railways” - a term I dislike immensely - you’ll want to get involved with shortly!
What is a more appropriate name for that type of railway in Britain? We Americans typically refer to ours as tourist railroads, of which we do not have nearly enough,considering what a big part railroads have played in our history.
In Britain, the term “heritage railway” can cover a wide diversities, from museum lines which dont really go anywhere but whose main purpose is to demonstrate how steam trains and their associated infrastructure worked, to lines in scenic areas of the British Isles who often go from A to B where both A and B are places of general interest to tourists.
Examples of the former might include the Midland Railway Centre, Didcot Railway Centre whilst the latter the North Yorks. Moors and the Ffestinog. Some of the latter are commercial undertakings with paid staff but even so there’s usually some input by unpaid volunteers.
From a railfan’s point of view the premier league of heritage lines would include the Severn Valley, Mid-Hants, Bluebell, Keighley & Worth Valley, Great Central and the East Lancs.
The Welsh narrow gauge lines are also Vintage Railways and well worth visiting and riding. I rode the Festiniog, Vale of Rydole (then still run by B. R.) and Tallilyn. I assume they are all still running.
Then there are the mineature steam railways that are passenger carrying model railroads: Romy Hyth and Dimchurch, Ravenwood?? and Ecksdale (very scenic). The latter connects or did connect with a passenger carrying scale model of an ocean liner used as a lake steamer. There are others. Like USA “Garden Railways” except they go some place and are actually used by some people for commuting!
In the editor’s lead-in page of The Railway Magazine that Simon sent me ([:D]), was the following: “The average British railfan tends to fall into one of five main camps-GW, LNE, LMS,SR and MT(modern traction)”. Is that true? And, if it is,where do your main interests lie? It would appear, to me, at least, that several of you Brits might fall into the GW and/or MT groups? American railfans, on the other hand,are not easy to classify-we’re all over the place.
Thanks
I think more so in the steam days people had more of dedication and interest to their own region because many of the regions had loco’s unique to them. Whilst people still have their preferences today of modern traction I think the interest is more general as a whole. You still get people who prefer regions/loco’s of a certain type or maybe DMU’s or EMU’s. My interest is general and of course it goes without saying a big interest to me is the North American scene. I have made a few trips recently and intend to make more to the US/Canada.
Of course there are extremes of railfanning in the UK. There are people who may only like loco’s with Sulzer engines or English Electric engines. Whilst I have preferences to certain types I find it odd that people will get off a train because the loco they wanted at the front of the train was the wrong type. This happens quite frequently at preserved railways, people may turn up for (say for an example) a class 47 and if a class 37 rolls in they won’t get on it. I remember once when a Sulzer loco was rostered on the train and its electric train supply wasn’t working for the heating, an English Electric loco was put on the opposite end to provide heat.
To save time instead of running the Sulzer onto the other end of the train when it reached its destination they just used the English Electric loco to pull it back to the original starting point. The Sulzer fans all got off and caught the bus back because they would not ride behind an English Electric loco. They did this all day, riding one way behind the Sulzer and catching bus back. This shows how extreme it can get. Most of this rivalry is only light hearted but I find it so funny to watch.
I’m basically a MT person, but with GW leanings in a historical sense - probably because the nearest railway line to the family home in my teenage years was an ex-GW one (Stourbridge-Birmingham, complete with lower-quadrant semaphore signals and the occasional ‘Western’ hauling vacuum-braked china clay wagons back then).
But don’t most British fans like the Deltics no matter what brand of diesel is their main addiction? That was my impression, that the Deltics were the one type with universal appeal.