Complete change of subject. Does anyone know the final disposition of all of the Deltics. I am familiar with Royal Scots Grey and Gordon Highlander, what about the others?
If I remember rightly, the surviving production Deltics (In TOPS number order) are:-
55 002 King’s Own Yorkshire Light Infantry - National Railway Museum, York
55 009 Alycidon - Deltic Preservation Society, Barrow Hill
55 015 Tulyar - Deltic Preservation Society, Barrow Hill
55 016 Gordon Highlander - same as 55 022 (see below)
55 019 Royal Northumberland Fusilier - Deltic Preservation Society, Barrow Hill
55 022 Royal Scots Grey - taken over by a new group (successor to D9000 Ltd) who are maintaining it in main line running condition.
And of course the prototype Deltic is also owned by the National Railway Museum and is currently on display at Railworld, Shildon, Co. Durham.
For more info about the three owned by the Deltic Preservation Society see http://www.thedps.co.uk/staticpages/index.php?page=about
I Assume the remaining deltics were scrapped.
Yes, though 6 out of 22 is a good survival rate, and 3 of those six are currently passed for main line running. There was even talk of #2 ‘KOYLI’ running main line but the people who were going to pay for her to be maintained in main line worthy condition ran out of money. (I think they were the same people behind the failed D9000 Ltd company which owned #16 and #22).
I gather the overhaul of #22 ‘Royal Scots Grey’ is behind schedule and Pathfinder Tours have cancelled the trip they were going to run with her on January 2nd which is a shame. It was going to be a thrash from London Kings Cross to Newcastle via the East Coast Main Line (where a Deltic belongs!) with the return leg via the Durham Coast line. Hopefully they’ll run the tour later in the year when the days are longer.
Hmmmm…I thought Tulyar 15 was the name of a racehorse of the equine variety, not the diesel variety.[:P] Who got to name the locomotives anyhow?
BR could be somewhat inconsistent in their naming policies. The Deltics were named after either racehorses or regiments. Racehorses were a carry-over from LNER which named a lot of their pacifics after race horses or company directors. LNER ran through a country with a number of famous race courses.
Funniest story I heard about naming was the Warship class (WR diesel hydraulics). They were named in alphabetical order with the numbers, and then they added a few on the end of the order. Someone suddenly had to come up with 3 ship names starting with “Z”.
The reason for this was the late decision to build an extra 5 Warships at Swindon works, #866 - 870. This was due to late delivery of the batch being built by the North British Loco Co, #833 - 865. When this batch eventually did arrive they were inferior to their Swindon built sisters and were the first to be withdrawn. None survive.
On the subject of names #812 was originally allocate the name “Dispatch” but instead carried the name “The Royal Naval Reserve, 1859 - 1959” which had to be spelt out in smaller characters to fit the nameplate, and it took two rows to do so.
On the subject of survival out of the 74 strong Western class 4 of the 7 survivors are from the batch built at Swindon, #1000 - 1029. I wonder if the build quality of this batch was better than that of the Crewe built batch, given that a disproportionate number of survivors are from this batch. Funnily enought the same also applies to 9F 2-10-0’s - the majority of survivors are from the Swindon batch #92200 - 92220, whereas 200 of the 250 strong class were built at Crewe.
In both instance to its credit Crewe built locos more quicklyu. Originally the Western order was to have been split 50/50 betweens the two works but because Swindon was slower Crewe ended building all but the first 30.
Don’t know who named the Deltic 015 Tulyar, but I do remember the dobbin well as it won me a few quid. The loco was indeed named after the equine.
Just heard on the 0600 news, the WCML is proving to be too good for its own good passenger numbers are increasing at such a rate that they estimate it will reach saturation in less than ten years. Whats the betting that instead of starting planning for expansion now and having the additional capacity on hand for when it’s needed. They will wait for the crunch and then raise their hands in panic saying “we didn’t expect this to happen”!
Worse, they’ll just jack up the fares to cut off demand. This should not be allowed to happen when the government is claiming that it wants people to adopt greener forms of transport, and rail is a lot greener than air. Virgin Trains would like to buy extra cars to make the Pendolinos 11 car instead of the present 9 car formations, but without the necessary guarantees they can not do this.
Sadly the government seems more interested in building more airports, despite concerns about climate change, than investing in rail. An Anglo Scottish High Speed line would reduce demand for air travel and render the proposed new airports unnecessary.
Sad but true. Politicians seem to think that you can treat trains like air travel but it is a much more hop on hop off system than air travel.
Is an Anglo Scottish high speed line longer than say Paris - Lyon or Paris - London?
If the total time by train is less than the total time by air it will win hands down, every time it seems.
greetings,
Marc Immeker
Cannot incremental improvements be made to the existing East Coast main to put it into the really high speed catagory? It would be hard to find a clear path for a new line, and the takings of buildings would probably be just as great as for improving the existing one.
Could it compete with the airlines?
In the 1960s following the post war modernisation programme of BR which included the electrifiction of the WCML. The new loco hauled trains were scheduled at 100mph and became known as the ‘Ton Up Trains’. These wiped the floor with the then available aircraft. However the almost complete lack of investment in BR over the following 30 odd years ably assisted by the ruin brought about by Beeching left the line in decline. The recent investment has returned the competitive edge to the railroad. How long this will last will depend on the lessons of the past being learned. This past gives me no feeling of confidence, more ‘deja-vous’. Talk of the ECML being able to take any forthcoming slack is not on as it is gathering custom at the same rate and wiill be saturated at about the same time, the east/west links (where they exist?) are already at full stretch. A glance at the Trainline web site will show that the busines customer is being squeezed to the last drop already. Some salvation is on the horizon in the shape of Central Railway which should help lighten the load as a central corridor with links to Manchester and possibly Leeds.
Absolutely. The distance is similar to Paris - Lyon. Experience there and also with the Chunnel shows that once you bring the journey time between two cities by rail down to 3 hours or less, rail wins hands down. Since the Chunnel opened, Eurostar now has 2/3rds of the total market for travelling between London and Paris and 80% of the premium business market. The opening of the second phase of the High Speed Channel Tunnel Rail Link (CTRL) in to London St. Pancras will make rail competitive for journeys to places further afield on the continent.
I’m reading a book by Brian Hollingsworth about locomotives. He writes that the 3300h.p. Class 66 retired all the class 31, 33, and 47 units, and most of the class 37 units. After raving about the class 66, he ends by saying that they haul all but the heaviest trains. I thought most British trains weren’t what we Americans would consider “heavy”. What locomotives are used on the heavier trains? Don’t they MU locomotives for that? Thanks
Murphy, the British built Class 60 locomotives, or EW&S’ small batch of Class 59/2s work the heaviest trains. The Class 66s were spec’d as more general purpose machines. The Class 59s which preceeded the Class 66s were the equivilent to a SD40-2SS, with heavy duty traction alternator and motors. With the Class 66 EW&S ordered larger fuel tanks, and changing requirements required larger mufflers. To balance the weight of the extra fuel, they are equipped with lower capacity alternator and traction motors. They are more comparible to a US GP59, reasonable pulling power, but good speed, 75 mph capability. The other big UK freight operator, Freightliner, ordered a batch of Class 66 with a lower gear ratio which increased their pulling power.
I know on the Ebbw (pronounced “Eb-oo” ) Vale line Class 60’s were preferred to 66’s. On one occassion a 66 stalled with a steel train and had to be assisted by a 37, whereas a 60 had managed to re-start a heavier train.
Although EWS have retired all their class 31, 33 and 47’s, a number of these locos are still in use with Open Access operators.
You have to think back to 1962 when the Deltics were introduced. They literally replaced the A4 Pacifics that had been running for 25 years or so and the railway organisation hadn’t changed. The locomotives were allocated to locomotive depots at Finsbury Park (34G) just north of London, Gateshead (52A) near Newcastle on Tyne and Haymarket (64B), near Edinburgh, these of course being the locations (if not the exact depots) used by the steam locomotives.
The London based locomotives were named after racehorses, as were many of the steam locomotives on this service. The Newcastle based locomotives were named after English regiments of the British Army (particulary those from nearby) and the Edinburgh based locomotives were named after Scottish regiments. Newcastle had two fewer locomotives than the capital city depots.
It is probably worth pointing out that when the “TOPS” numbers were introduced, an attempt was made to retain the final digits the same, so D9000 and D9001 to D9021 became 55022 and 55001 to 55021 respectively (since “000” was not used as a number in that system).
M636C
The trains that convey rock through Stockport (mainly at night) are usually topped and tailed. I have not seen any in MU mode.
NIHIL DICE.