Don’t they keep the Vasa continually sprayed with water to keep it from drying out and disintegrating? I recall seeing a war of 1812 gunboat that sank in Lake Champlain that was in a museum in Vermont The wood had shrunk severely so that it couldn’t possibly float anymore. Those two American ships from that war that are on the bottom of Lake Ontario near Hamilton are preserved in mint conditon by the government making it illegal to go near them. It’s illegal to mess with any sunken warship but that won’t stop the scavengers if they get a chance.
It’s been a while since I’ve read or seen anything about it, but I know Vasa was sprayed with freshwater for a number of years after the salvage, I don’t think they do it much anymore. The idea was to get what salt was in the wood out of it and to prevent rapid shrinkage. They may spray it ocasionally now. Again, I’m not sure.
There’s a gunboat like you describe in the Smithsonian, except this one, the Philadelphia, dates from the Revolution. It was part of Benedict Arnold’s Lake Champlain fleet and was sunk at the Battle of Valcour Island in 1776. Like that 1812 war boat, the timbers are pretty severly shrunken, although the boat’s in a pretty good state of preservation. It still has its artillery!
Firelock, I think that is the boat I saw. Memory is a bit hazy as it was 49 years ago I was last in the Smithsonian. I recall a cannon ball stuck in the forward planks of the boat. Shrunken to hell. For me, vintage boats should be kept in the water, either wood, iron or steel. That is what they were meant for. Vintage aircraft should be flown. Harrison Ford was injured flying a Ryan training airplane of second world war vintage. I’m sorry he crashed it and was injured, but that is what airplanes are for. I have an old Citroen that I restored over 30 years ago. It’s got a million stone chips, scratches and some small dents. That’s what happens when you put it to the use for which it was designed. If you don’t use the thing, does it really survive? Like I wrote about the Consitution a while back. It’s a sailing ship! Sail it!
Yep, that was Philadelphia all right, I’ve seen that cannonball myself!
So Hank Ford was flying a Ryan? I was wondering, the on-line news reports and local paper didn’t specify what aircraft type. If it’s a World War Two vintage trainer then it’s either a PT-19 or a PT-22. Good, tough airplanes. I wonder what brought it down, again the news reports didn’t specify. Engine failure I suppose.
As far as flying vintage airplanes are concerned let me quote the late great Cole Palen, he of the Old Rheinbeck Aerodrome:
“We fly 'em, break 'em, fix 'em, and fly 'em some more!”
My hero.
Roger, thanks for attempting to “salvage” (pun intended) my topic! Since the US no longer has a “government”, from what I’ve seen and heard about the UK, I think I want to MOVE THERE! the problem is, I like my dogs and guns too much…
There’s an old, old saying Wobblinwheel, “The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence”, meaning things always aren’t as great as they may seem to be in other places.
Trust me, I’ve been around awhile and the grass ISN"T always greener on the other side of the fence. The Brits have their governmental issues as well.
Firelock, I’ve heard Ford’s plane was a PT-22. Silver fuselage, yellow wings with the old pre-war “meatball in a star.” insignia. Yes, the Brits hate their government as well. Like Canada, you don’t so much vote for a guy but vote to get rid of him. No one considers the Prime Minister as anything more than just another political hack, unlike the US where the prez is the head of the government and the head of state, we have that old lady as the head of state.
They also have a lot of rules that we would consider B.S. For example, here if you change the oil in your car yourself, you can take the old oil to most gas stations or the store you bought it from and they will dispose of it. In Britain, that’s illegal. I work in garage in London and you need a special license to have someone take the old oil away. You have to get your garage jacks and lifts inspected periodically. I can see about a car lift, but a jack? You have to pay to get rid of tires also. But, scrap metal goes away for free. If you don’t call someone from a scrapyard, metal thieves will make it disappear and metal thieves are everywhere.
54, I finally found a picture on-line of Ford’s crashed plane, and yes, it’s a PT-22, complete with those gorgeous pre-war markings you described. The engine’s bent at about a 30 degree angle from the centerline but the damage doesn’t look like anything that can’t be repaired.
A pretty good job of dead-stick flying on Hank Ford’s part, damage nothwithstanding. I doubt he could have done better with the “Millenium Falcon.”
So the Brits want a special license to take away used motor oil? What do they want you to do with it otherwise, pour it down the drain?
Well, as a Brit myself - but now an honorary American - I’ve lived in the USA almost as long as the UK and I am torn on this issue. However, I can say that I spent a lot more time on Steam Engines in the UK than in the USA. Our local UK Steam Locomotive preservation societies were everywhere. I could travel and hour and go ride one - YEAY! Can’t say the same about the USA. But as someone pointed out in an earlier post it’s a matter of scale. I think the point to remeber here is that some dedicated people want to conserve this for future generations (even if it’s just a small portion of track purchased from the owners or the GOV whatever).
I can’t imagine how sad it would be for future generations never to have sat in a passenger car and has their senses filled with aroma of buring coal and oil from the engine.
Now that’s magic you can’t get from your iPhone. iPad etc.
Well, welcome aboard Loco Guy!
Indeed, welcome! Regarding the Tornado, I was in the cab, or “on the footplate” a few years ago. The cab is full of electronic equipment and the headlights are LEDs. It’s an amazing thing!
Ah yes, Cole Palen. I met him around 35 years ago when I first got out of the Navy and was lookng for a job. He was doping a wing of something, I don’t recall what. But they weren’t hiring. They did have one of my all time favourite cars sitting in a hangar, a Morgan three wheeler barrel-back with a Matchless engine. Damn. I would have liked to work there.
I saw myself, their Fokker D-7 take off in about 200 feet on grass and it went straight up like an elevator. Then, it hung on the propellor! Hovering vertically in midair. My father told me it could do that and I saw it with my own eyes. What’s this got to do with the trains of Britain? Not much. But last time I was there and visiting steam railways, I saw several Tiger Moths flying around. Cripes, those Limeys!
One thing I’ve found to quite interesting. Except for MODERN excursion videos, the “vintage” footage indicates that in the old days, the locomotives had NO HEADLIGHTS! They used the little oil lamps that just sort of perched on little brackets on the front, or rear of the loco (depending on the loco’s direction). Also, it’s my understanding the POSITION of these lamps indicated the consist of status of the train. Why did these guys not need to see where they were going? AT NIGHT??? In the vintage videos, before the train would depart the station, the “driver” (engineer), or the fireman would be handed the necessary “lanterns” to hang on his engine. I’ve also noticed not one single model (OO scale) of a steam loco comes with any form of lighting! Don’t that seem strange? Would YOU like to “drive” a high-speed passenger train, at night, with less than the equivalent of a COLEMAN LANTERN to light your way?
The train just follows the tracks.
And as I understand it, railways in Britain have pretty much always been grade separated. That’s more so what it’s used for in North America. A warning for us, rather than to light the way for the locomotive crew to see where they’re going.
By the time your headlight has lit some unexpected obstable up in your way, it’s going to be too late to do much of anything about it anyways.
That may be true, but might give you time to JUMP!
Mostly white oak - Quercus alba.
It grows straighter than live oak, thus able to have longer pieces for side planking. Live oak was preferred for the knee braces and other, curved structural members.
Even in this country, at higher speeds (running on signal indication or track warrant) the headlight isn’t doing much but allowing you to be seen.
It’s more for operations where restricted speed is required.
Main line trains when moving on Clear signal indications or proper track authority are NOT LINE of SIGHT Vehicles. At the maximum permitted speeds, trains cannot be stopped within their range of vision.
Range of vision only comes into play when operating at Restricted Speed, as most, if no all, definations of Restricted Speed require being able to stop the train within 1/2 the range of vision for train or obstruction ahead.
This reminds me: Back in 1963, riding west from Minneapolis and into South Dakota on NP, I was in the dome at night and noticed that they seemed to be running with the headlights off except at crossings. I’ve wondered ever since if this was the case or if it was just the difference between high and low beam. There was such a tremendous difference that it seemed like off and on to me. Was it common practice to run with headlights off in sparsely populated areas?
‘The Engine Driver’s Manual’ by Brian Topping, page 111, shows a diagram of 9 combinations of head lamps to designate everything from an “express passenger train or breakdown train going to a breakdown” through to a “freight train or ballast train for short distances”. The fireman has the responsibility to set the correct code. The lamps can be installed in 4 possible places on the end of the engine leading the train. Red and white lamps are used.
I never heard of an automotive “high” and “low” beam on a railroad locomotive, but there is a requirment to “dim” the headlight in yards and to approaching trains. I believe it is also a rule to turn the headlight off when the locomotive is not in service.
I also remember a rotating red MARS light that was popular on western railroads in the USA!
It looked kind of “weird” and “creepy” coming down the track the “red rotating orbiting” beam next to a white headlight. Also when the train was running you could see this red orbit shining down the track from the train cab. I guess it was suposed to really attract attention. I don’t know why they quit using it but you see it on some historic steam and diesel engines such as Burlington and Milwaukee RR.
Doc