I remember the rotating lights back in the '50’s, but I only remember them being white, and some rotated in a circular motion while others moved in a “lazy 8” pattern. They were very attention-getting, much more than the alternate flashing ditch lights. As I recall, they were discussed some time ago on these fora, and the consensus was that they were discontinued because of maintenance issues.
As for the headlight-dimming, maybe what I saw was the difference between bright and dimmed headlights. I don’t know how much difference in illumination there would be, but it looked like nothing or “the whole world lit up” to me.
As yes, the MARS light. They put them on fire engines too in the old days. I got to see one up close at an antique fire apparatus display and so help me it said it right on the light itself: “The Light From Mars.”
Could be that’s why Dr. D thought MARS lights were weird and creepy. Otherworldly might be a better term.
And you bet, it WAS supposed to attract attention. Looks like it worked, huh?
As Jerry Pinkepank pointed out years ago in a letter in RPO in TRAINS, Mars is a trade mark for its brand of signal light. Mars and Pyle National were the two major suppliers of signal lights to railroads.
As an aside, after having seen the Mars trade mark on the light bar of a Chicago squad car many years ago, Mars is illustrated in the context of the god of war, not the planet.
The British have a good record of maritime preservation…
Nelson’s Victory from the Battle of Trafalgar
The Cutty Sark, one of the later tea clippers
HMS Warrior, the world’s first ocean going ironclad warship
Brunel’s Great Britain, the first large iron screw steamer…
These four alone are an amazing insight into the technology of the maritime past. The Great Britain was brought back from the Falkland Islands on a barge.
I recall seeing HMS President in London but I had no idea of its original role. It is somewhat overshadowed by the presence nearby of HMS Belfast, one of the larger WWII warships preserved.
HMS President is not in its original condition, but it has been preserved, and the loss of the hoped for grant only delays its return to London.
If it could be restored as a replica of its original condition as a Q ship, it would be a reminder of the seriousness of the German U-boat campaigns of both World Wars and the ingenuity used to counter the threat.
The Q ships were disguised as freighters, but carried concealed guns and depth charges for use against submarines. The were built with a shallow draft so that a torpedo set to strike the hull of a heavily loaded freighter would pass beneath the keel, giving the Q ship the ability to strike the U boat after it had revealed itself. They were also faster than freighters to give chase if required.
That isn’t the message that I ever intended to communicate.
But can you imagine if the Duke of Gloucester for an example, the sole member of her class on British Railways, was to have her very survival threatened in 2016?
That such a thing is unthinkable where British rail preservation at this point is concerned, yet is quite possibly going to be the fate of one of the gems of Britain’s maritime history after so many years, rather attests to the disparty there in attention and public funding.
Britain ruled the waves for centuries and the sea was a part of British culture more so than any other nation, yet much of that heritage is poorly represented with gaping holes for significant types that survived into recent times.
Worst, the future is anything but secure for some of the gems that do exist like this vessel.
You can’t really go by that though. If anything, I’d argue that such a short life indeed was typical rather than atypical. Or look at that steam locomotive that I cited which was one of a kind and gave troublesome service during her less than 10 years of service. Yet very few would consider her unworthy of preservation in 2016.
The life of a steel hulled naval vessel was short during this era. Very few had service lives that lasted decades and most of those that did like late war British and American battleships only had their lives extended several decades due first to budgetary restraints after WWI, naval treaties restricting newbuilds, and then the Great Depression and the war clouds looming over the Pacific and Atlantic.
HMS Caroline which is the last survivor of the Battle of Jutland and the last prewar light or heavy cruiser anywhere, only saw around 8 years of service as a cruiser for the Royal Navy.
Yet despite an uncomfortably long time of 5 years or so before a preservation plan and funding was established to turn her into a museum ship, few familiar with this subject would argue that her historical importance was marred by such a short, albeit typical lifespan for a working vessel of the type for that era.
While there’s certainly a fair list of well ran museum ships in the UK, I still don’t view it as commensurate with the importance of the seas throughout the nation’s history or to the level given to the field of rail preservation.
Not only was Ark Royal not saved just like the last time over 30 years ago when the last Ark Royal went to the scrapyard despite hopes otherwise from many, but I’m hearing rumblings that Illustrious, which would’ve been the nation’s first carrier museum and the government’s pick to represent these three Harrier carriers despite this one not participating in the Falklands, is facing a different fate now.
I think when this country has 8 battleships alone preserved, it makes it frusturating to see the world’s predominant maritime power until the 1940’s let every last one escape when so much other history has been saved over there.
Hard to be too critical in that specific instance where their older and most historic battleships like HMS Warspite are concerned. Heck, we let the survivors of Pearl Harbor all be scuttled or scrapped even though something like the USS Nevada would’ve made for a heck of a museum in Honolulu, despite examples like the West Virginia surviving in mothballs for years.
Obsolete at the end of WWII with most of the WWI era hulls already out of active serve before the war ended for the Royal Navy, it’s difficult to envision much being saved with the financial situation at war’s end. But letting Vanguard and the surviving King George V’s escape over a decade later without saving even one is frusturating, and keeps on happening.
Where’s the obligatory British built trans-Atlantic liner from the golden age of passenger travel docked somewhere like Southampton, for example? When you think of British dominance of the sea, this area isn’t too far behind yet none have been saved there.
There are some amazing museum ships in Britain. But so many gaping holes of significance for every major accomplishment they’ve made, and strange decisions even when something is preserved. Why not HMS Conqueror, perhaps the last submarine to ever torpedo and sink an enemy warshi
It would have been great if the RMS Mauretania could have been saved but it was the depression and scrapping ships provided work for people who did not have a lot of options.
Mauretania and Olympic would have been worth their weight in gold as troopships during World War Two, but in the mid-Thirties, who knew?
Hmmm, HMS Warspite. the grand old battleship that broke the towline and threw herself on the rocks rather than go to the breaker’s yard. She didn’t die without a fight, that’s for certain.
Preserving all these large ships would be nice in an ideal world, but unfortunately economics and feasibility have to be considered. Think of the challenges many locations have, just maintaining a displayed steam locomotive and finding the funding to keep the beast looking presentable. That cost for a locomotive amounts to little more than a rounding error in a budget that will be required for a large ship. The difference is an order of magnitude, maybe several.
Maintenance will become far easier if the item, locomotive or ship, can be kept protected from the weather and other elements that continually attack it. But imagine the size of the boathouse you would need to build, just for one vessel.
I am surprised, yet heartened, that even a few large ships are surviving. It may not be as many as we would like, and indeed some very historic items are gone forever. I look at it as a glass half full.
Yep. The estimated cost to restore and put the 800 ton, 252 ft. long U-505 into a weather-protected underground exhibition building in 2004 was “only” $35 mil.
Getting back to restoration of steam engines did you know that there are 8 S160s in the UK, 2 of which are running? Lima 7208, Baldwin 6046 and will be joined at the end of the year by Lima 5197. 3 others are under restoration and the final 2 are for spares.
The USATC did not apply classifications of that type to any locomotive.
The description first appeared in various books written by Tourrett which are otherwise quite good with a few strange points.
The number is an abbreviation of 280-S-160 which was an Alco shorthand description of its locomotives, applied to all units. 280 (not surprisingly) for 2-8-0 , S for superheated and 160 for 160 000 pounds (80 tons) the weight of the locomotive without tender.
Logically, in its entirety, this descrption only applies to Alco built locomotives.
However, it appears in Alco builder’s lists as a description.
Those who support the description should try to get it adopted for other Alco locomotives. If my memory is correct, the Union Pacific 4000 class were:
4884-S-500
See if you can supersede the name “Big Boy” by “S-500”
I hope that you’re kidding with this one, since obviously if she was to be preserved, she wouldn’t of been used as a target ship off Bikini Island in July 1946 in the first place. What I said about her having been an excellent candidate only applies if the decision had been made prior, not afterwards.
I think it’s a given that preservation after surviving a nuclear blast is highly unlikely and would’ve never been considered. That’s why you don’t anchor a ship slated to become a museum at ground zero in the first place.
That said, there is a preserved British tank that not only survived a nuclear blast with its engine only stopping when the fuel tank ran out of fuel, but went on to several more decades of operational use afterwards before becoming a museum display.
That’s why for instance I don’t hold it against the UK for not saving HMS Warspite. Short of the Royal Navy holding on to her for years rather than seeking to dispose of an asset with no further military value, it’s hard to imagine any other fate for her.
The practicalities of an early postwar Britain that never really had a chance to recover from the last world war, was in fiscal stress, and was facing a new threat emerging out of the Soviet Union obviously made the environment to save a major relic like a battleship a difficult proposition at a time when the nation was looking ahead and wanted to forget.
But I’m less understanding 10+ years later at what happened with their surviving fast battleships. Can’t sa
Don’t know about any proposed preservation efforts for the USS Nevada, which as a proud strong ship AND a Pearl Harbor survivor deserved a better fate, but there were plans to preserve the USS New York. Presentation to the state of New York was proposed after the navy was through using it as another Bikini bomb test ship. New York was anchored at the periphery of the target zone, and DID survive both shots intact, but was so hot with radiation after the second test donating it for preservation was out of the question. Several years later it was sunk as a target ship with conventional weapons, as was Nevada.
Ol’ Nevada had the last laugh, though. During it’s post-Pearl Harbor repairs the early-war copper shortage caused the navy to install some buss bars in the ships electrical system that were made of a metal with the same conductivity as copper. Silver. A half-million dollars worth. Nevada took the silver to the bottom with her, everyone forgot those buss bars were still in there!
One last thing, poster samoht has been graciously giving us updates about the Churnet Valley’s S160’s on a separate thread. Look in when he’s got something to say, it’s interesting.