Brilliant YouTube clip Mod-man! I wonder how many taggers would indulge in their “hobby” if they were caught by a no-nonsense sergeant-major (Roman, British, or other) and pummelled into a grammar lesson?
“Right! Wot’s all this then?”
Per David’s last two photos, I’m really impressed with the way those elevated stations and lines were built. Talk about permanence! No doubt about it, that system was built to last!
The steam ship New York! (Actually City Of New York.)
That’s the ship that was pulled from it’s moorings in Southampton harbor by the “suction,” for lack of a better term, of the passing Titanic!
A collision between the two ships was prevented by some aggressive tugboat work and Captain Smith of the Titanic calling for increased revolutions on the port engine which pushed the New York away from the larger ship.
That photo’s got to be pre-1903, the New York underwent a major refit starting in 1901 and lost one of her three funnels at the time. She re-entered service in '03.
Amazing what people turn up for this Forum, isn’t it?
Wow! Need to put a reference to this thread on the Fateful Journey thread.
"Of course what appeared the day of the test was precisely the same questions on the same piece of paper."
I am reminded of my final year examinations where we were expecting a question on a reduction gear for use between an aero engine and its propellor.
A friend and I tried separately to work on a sample question in our nominated textbook, which fortunately had an answer in the back of the book, this on the morning of the examination.
We applied rather unthinkingly the procedure we had been shown, but we both failed to get the printed answer.
Finally, my colleague came down to my cubicle and explained that we had been applying the the formula unthinkingly. In the example we had been given, gear A meshed with B and gear C meshed with gear D. In the textbook, gear A meshed with C and B with D.
We both worried abut how we had wasted our time on a simple question by not paying attention.
Come the exam, we turned over the paper and saw that the first question was the question from the textbook with even the numerical values unchanged.
For the only time in my life, I wrote he answer at the bottom of the page and filled in the working backwards because I knew every step in the process backwards.
It appears that nobody else in the class had checked the textbook, and my friend and I topped that class.
And I don’t think I’m related to Overmod’s maths teacher.
Peter
Jeff Erlitz forwarded me a great summer 1950 (last year for the Lex. El.) picture at Lexington Avenue and Grand Street in Brooklyn. By 1950, only four, five, or six of the window panels of the 1300-series composite convertible motor cars were replaced by summer panels. Notice the cavass shades drawn, since some riders wanted sun protection. Note there are two trains in this picture. The full-viewed 1300 is the first car of a train moving north, left-to-right in the picture, and the 900-series trailer, which saw service behind steam, is on the far track, and its lead 1300 motor’s platform gate is also visible.
Compare with the much earlier Flatbush and Atlantic picture when all summer panels were used on convertables.
Just received frm a fellow MIT OLd-Senior-House Alimnus, Flatbush & Atlantic:
There is now a plaque on the still-existing headhouse for the IRT Atlantic Avenue Station. Originally the station was just an island-platform, two-track, termnal station, the southern terminal of the original subway’s Brooklyn Extension. But, before WWI, under the Dual Contracts, the second IRT East-River Tunnel brought the outside two tracks and the side platforms, so the station serves the 4 and 5 at the inside platorm and the 2 and 3 at the outside platorms. And within fare-control one can reach the Q and B at their Atlantic Avenue Station, the A and C at the Jay Street - Borough Hall Station, and the D, N, and R at their Pacific Street Station. Outside fare control and also an underground right-of-way currently without track, are passeges to the LIRR Atlantic Avenue Terminal.
The above is currrent, sent by another MIT-Senior-House alumnus.
But going back 74 years, while photographing the DeKalb Avenue streetcar line, I glanced sideways toward Lexington Avenue, spied an elevated train, and was in-time to catch its last car: (Except that Joe Frank corrected me and explained thatv I must have been at 2nde Avenue & 86th Street, Msnhsttan, his neighbolrhood, andv photographed a 3rd Avenue Thru Express gate-car train’s last car northbound or 1st car light-move southbound.
I should note that the N bypasses Pacific Street most of the time. Does the D during rush hour?
A Lexington Avenue Bridge & Jay - Grant Avenue elevated train on the connecting track,
also used by the 14th Street - Lefferts Avenue multi rush-hour service.
Today the connection does not see revenue service and remains only to connect the “L” 14th-Street-Canarsie Line to the rest of the system.
I wonder if both tracks still exist, or does only one remain?
A great place for a photo stop for a future BU-gate-car Nostalgia Special, with
photographers leaving the train at Broadway Junction, ENY - Easter Parkway and
reboarding at Atlantic Avenue.
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Jeff Erlitz reports to me that both tracks are in and usable, and occasionally there is a passenger movement to and from Canarsie via the Broadway Brooklyn Elevated and the Wiliamsburg Bridge. This was the rush-hour route that used these tracks durihng thr Classic Period. The 14th Street - Lefferts rush hour “Multi” tra8ins used tracks now missing with the end of the elevated stucture on Pitkin Avenue, and the “A” running to Grant Avenue and Lefferts Avernue.
A really great website for all interested in BMT history, especially the rolling stock. including “New York’s best subway car” (scrapped 1957):
Most readers know about the large Coney Island Shop and Yard complex, but may wonder wher did Brooklyn rapid transit and streetcars get overhauls and repairs, before that shop was opened in 1927.
The 39th Street Shop was bult by the South Brooklyn Railroad shortly before 1900, and was transferred to the Brooklyn Rapid Transit in 1920.
In 1932 it was coverted to bw the shop for the BMT’s bus subsidiary.
In 1952 it was replaced by the TA by the present massive East New York facility that serves buses from all boroughs.
The property was sold to a steel pipe company, that used the South Brooklyn freight business, and they sold the property to Costico, that uses it today. Somebody local can inform us if they ever use their freight siding.
If this material interests you, you might wish to visit the South Brooklyn thread on the Trains Magazine Forum.
Also, Eric Oszustowicz’s The Elevated Railway’s of Brooklyn and the BMT Subway, Vol. !, 1864-1940, 1st Edition, is now available from the Electric Railroaders Association and is every way comparable to the fine books published by the CERA. Differences are that Eric’s book has far more reproductions of historic documents than the typical CERA book, and that the extremely complex history of the rapid-transit lines means a much more complex book organization. Still, it is an organization that is useful and makes sense. Some photos included are woppers. There are a few errors, and a short list of corrections is promised.
Contact the ERA for pricw, shipping, etc.
The history of the South Brooklyn is included.
I can provise price information if that won’t be considered advertising. I remain an ERA member and a long time ago had two terms as President.
Before the “A’” ra to Lefferts Avenue. A C-type Fulton Street and then a Lexington gate trsin near Grant Avrnue Stastion on Liberty Avenue. A C-type Fulton train on Pitkin Avenue. Front of a C-type at Rockaway Avenue, then the Elevated’s post-Unification western terminal with free transfer to the “A” downstairs.
None of this track exists today, only the Liberty Avenue stryucture and track east of Grant Avenue to Lefferts Avenue.
Posted by Dave Klepper (quoted)
“But going back 74 years, while photographing the DeKalb Avenue streetcar line, I glanced sideways toward Lexington Avenue, spied an elevated train, and was in-time to catch its last car”
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Hi Dave!
The teacher wants you to stand in the corner for one hour - heh – regarding this photo below of yours that I patched in ABOVE !
THAT photo belongs in your IRT “3rd Ave EL” Thread, Dave ! Its very far away from downtown Brooklyn and the Brooklyn BMT Lexington Avenue EL !!! I know that because this photo is in my old MANHATTAN neighborhood – West on E. 86th Street.
Is IS actually looking west from 2nd Avenue, Manhattan, along East 86th street (along south side of street) showing the rear car of an IRT UPTOWN 3rd AVE EL LOCAL train having just passed over E.86th St heading to the E. 89th Street Local Station.
The white sided (actually tan brick) building to the right of the last EL car is the famed F W Woolworth store and building on the N/E corner of 3rd Ave, and next to it’s right is the famed German Restaurant, Club and Dance Hall of Yorkville, later called the CORSO at 205 E. 86th St… As you well remember, the IRT 2nd Ave EL was gone from 2nd Ave. just a few years before, by 1941 !
You may have shot that photo at the same day while you were in Yorkville (Manhattan) at age 16 in 1946 when you shot those 2 great photos looking south aslong 3rd Avenue, from N/E corner of E. 86th Street - of TARS trolley cars heading uptown and stopped under the El tracks at the SE corner of 3rd Ave.
BELOW is a more current (well, 1970’s) photo looking west due north towards that N/E corner with the now modernized FW Woolworth store and its building . The El was been gone since Dec 1955 ! The
I don’t need to starnd in the corner, because your correction also requires correction!
The 2nd Avenue Elevated from 57th Street to 129th Street ceased operating in June, 1940 and was demolished during the resr of the year. From 57th Street south to Chatham Square in 1942.
On Third Avenue, after June 1940, open-platform (gate) cars were never ever used in local service, only in rush=hour Through-Express service, and operated light oposite the direction of heavy passenger traffic, on the local track, just like the composies that provided most of the Through Express service-- untiil the Q-Types replaced the composites and gate cars, and the trucks of the comoposites started to be transferred to the Qs. Thus, for a short time, most of the Through Express service was provided by gate-cars. But no local service after 1940 on the Third Avenue Elevated.
Thanks, and I’ll straighten my files accordingly.
Hello Dave !!
I wrote “the 2nd Ave EL was gone” (meaning in the Yorkville area photo being under direct discussion of course) by 1941 – the last of the E.60th street to E.128th street part structure was gone by Jan 1941. I more properly should have written about that “specific” northern part of the line re: its demolition time frame, but I assumed you would readily understand that with relation to the Yorkville photo and its timeline.
I am very long well aware that the southern part of the 2nd Ave EL remained in operation from Queens (via Q-Boro bridge) to City Hall and South Ferry Manhattan terminals until June 1942 when that part of the line was closed and later demolished.
Also, the short one block “stub” part of the 2nd Ave EL was left standing from E.128th to 129th streets (where it was attached to the 3rd Ave El Harlem River Bridge approach) and was demolishe later, along with the tiny short yard along the east side of 2nd Ave. jutting towards the Harlem River edge, and the 128th Street former 2nd Av EL Shops and few remaining layup tracks, in 1950. They were used by the 3rd Ave El line until then. All that structure was removed along with the E.99th St / 3rd Ave yards and shops. Leaving just the E.129th Street Station structure of the 3rd Ave El remaining over E. 129th Street.
I will take YOUR word for the “no gate car locals” after 1940 on the 3rd Ave EL – even tho many photos exist (some in publications) showing gate cars on local tracks as dated 1945, 46, 47, 48. These like you say, were likely “express deadheads” returning to layup after their express runs. Like the Composite Car and Q type Car express trains did also.
Your statement would make sense as all the surplus MUDC EL cars from the 6th, 2nd and 9th Ave EL closings would thus be moved to all local (and some express) 3rd Ave services. I did ride gates on 3rd Ave in 1949 & 50, but I don’t remember them as locals –
All this is correct. The one exception bto ehat I wrote is that after June 1940 until end of 2nd Ave. Queens sevice in 1942, gate cars continued to provide most, if not all, of the Queens 2nd Avenue service. I just do not remember any MUDCs in Queens.
Hello Dave
Also, as you well know – IRT EL all-Motor Gate cars of the 12 paired windows body style (1901 to 1910 era as built motorized new) continued to run until I believe May 1953 on the Dyre Line – I rode them there also a number of times for joyrides. And then they were replaced by the “Manual Operated Doors” Deck Roof and Hedley Hi-V Motor Cars after that on the Dyre shuttles… whichh I also rode. Until they were replaced by May 6, 1957 when thru mainline trains of alternately Steinways and Low-V Cars operated the Dyre Line direct towards Manhattan - thru the finally opened flyover track connection.
regards - Joe F
