I am getting back into the hobby after a hiatus of almost 50 years, and I have started to build some old Ambroid, Ulrich, and Silver Streak kits that I bought on eBay. Most of them are from the 50s and 60s. So they have been sitting aroung a long time.
I am finding them much more difficult than I remember, in part, because many of the wood pieces are out of dimension. The usual problem seems to be that the pieces are longer (or, sometimes, wider) than they should be. For example, on an Ulrich kit, according to the plans, the dimension of the floor was supposed to be 39 scale feet, but it actually measured out to be 39’-9". I cut it down to the correct length, but nothing seems to fit too well. However, if you do not do this, everything is out of square.
Is it a waste of time to buy and build old kits, or is it just a question of dealing with dimensional changes?
I’m not surprised to hear that a wood kit floor is a little bit long. It was probably a little bit long when it left the factory. Successful construction of wood kits requires a lot of TLC, measurement, sanding and filing to fit, constant checking for squareness.
I’ve built some old wood Ambroid kits which are of the same age. With care, a nice model can be constructed.
Hey, maybe you bought some of those old kits from me!
In the late '70s when I lived in Dallas, I was between layouts. But, I did have access to Bobbye Halls Hobby Shop and picked up a number of the Silver Streak, Ulrich, Ambroid, and some old metal Athearns. I found the Silver Streak and Ulrichs made some nice models and those I built are still with me. They were a bit rough, but with some fine filing and sanding and touch up paint, they made some pretty nice rolling stock.
Some of the old kits were more trouble than they were worth (IMHO), and others were just beyond my skill level to do them justice (I.E. Ambroid 1 in 5000, etc.).
My opinion today is, if they fill a need in your layout or collection, get them!
I think that, generally, it IS a waste of time IF you’re expecting something as detailed as what you can get currently.
But if you want to do it just for the fun of it, or because you’re in a nostalgic phase, go for it. And do a good job.
An example: Years ago, I bought a B&O Ulrich triple hopper. It was top of the line in those days, complete with operating hopper doors. I built it back then. I later stripped my poor paint job and have it tucked away for assembly “someday”. It is plain NOT AS GOOD as the Tangent UP quad hopper. But for nostalgic purposes, I hope to someday build it. Again.
An exception may be the real craftsman kits, but they will need a LOT of work and detailing to bring them along. But you may want that particular prototype. And that may be the exception to my “rule”.
Another example: I bought an Ambroid (I think) Trailer Train bulkhead flat kit. I ended up replacing ALL the parts in the kit with Evergreen plastic and other bits. Or there’s the wood Ambroid kit of a 60’ Burlington box. There, I used the ends and maybe the doors. Again, I replaced everything else. So, even should you choose to build a craftsman kit because it’s the only way to get the model, I still figure you’re almost building it from scratch, 'cause not much in those old kits is worth keeping. Except the nostalgia.
Whether it’s a waste of time or not is up to you. These are mostly what we call craftsman kits today. They are essentially a box of lumber of approximate sizes and a set of plans and instructions and maybe a photo or two. It’s up to the modeler to cut the pieses to size and keep everything square. In some cases they came with cast parts, in some cases not and you either had to make them or find them in the Walthers catalog.
I would say the car kits are mosttly not worth building unless you want to hone up on your wood building skills. The plastic cars built from the 70s on and especialy the last 20 years are well detailed and no comparisson with the older wood kits. The building kits can still be of value and still fit into a layout today You can update widows and doors with those made by Grant Line or Tichey.
Many MR’s don’t have the skills or time or both to put these old kits together today and would rather assemble a plastic kit or buy one ready to plant on the layout. There are still wood kits being produced but they are a different animal, they are laser cut and almost everything fits and of course are not cheap, (what is today?).
So you have to decide if it’s worth it to you, based on your skills, time available and whether the project fits into MR “world”.
Gotta tell this story. In high school, more than a few years ago, got a LaBelle wood coach kit for Christmas, along with a nice hardcover book on American Locomotives. Got the kit 80 percent built. Still under the tree, picked up the book and it slipped out of its cover sleeve and as you’d guess, dropped directly on the LaBelle coach…flattened beyond repair. Tears ensued. So this time around will be more careful…hopefully.
Is building old kits a waste of time only if it is a structure you don’t want and have no use for.
Are they as detailed as some of todays plastic kits or even the the plonk and play structures more than likely not. But with the amount of detail bits available today thats a non issue
Are there going to be construction problems Yes and that goes for the still made 1960’s plastic kits as well.
As to why you would want to build one, these kits are now so old no one wants them so you have an instant point of difference for your layout. With patience and perseverance and a couple of extras added a very nice model is the result.
The kits you mention my memory is the bits where never the right size and I got that ########## off with them that I went to the then new plastic well fitting part kits. Which I still get. Now they due to the age of the molds they have there own issues that have to be dealt with.
But are the same in that they are now different enough to what every one else is using and need that little extra work or detail bit added and give a point of difference.
Oh and I get to be a kid again I can’t stop getting old but no said anything about growing up[:D]
Those old kits were a good intro to scratchbuilding. I have built some and scratch built some and the biggest difference is the kits have all the strip wood and castings and other materials gathered together for you and the roof, floor, and endblocks (if it’s a boxcar) for the subassembly are cut to length and square (but do check). The strip wood and siding need cut and the castings cleaned up, metal bent etc…
Still, I find them a lot of fun to build. They may not be up to the latest resin/plastic/urethane kits and highend RTR, but you can usually get them good enough. I buy them when I can for a reasonable price.
But the kits do take time and patience to build. So if you just want the car, I suggest you get some of the RTR stuff.
One of these days, I am going to get the fun of building one of those old kits-- but WITHOUT THE KIT! I recently bought some N scale printed sides for a Santa Fe dry ice reefer I have been intending to build for year and years. Bought a couple of other odd and interesting car sides to fill out the order. Came with the instruction sheet for an HO Strombecker wood car kit-- without the kit.
So I get to scratchbuild the car to fit the printed sides. Should be fun. When I get to it. Fortunately I bought some N scale roof, floor and so on milled wood stock 25 or more years ago before such items were discontinued.
The only thing worse than gettting on old kit and finding it is difficult, is getting one that someone has started and abandoned. I ran into this late last year with a Muir Models mining stamping mill kit that had been donated to the model RR group at Boothbay RR Village. We had been carring the kit around to shows for a few years to sell for fund raising. I decided that, since no one wants to buy the kit, why not assemble it and sell the finished product. I decided to build it as a freight station that would sell better in the East.
When I got into it, I found almost all the parts that had been cut were out of square including door and window openings. The person had not planned his cuts, and there was no material left for the back wall. I had to cobble together left over pieces into the back wall. The roof was an odd configuration that did not fit together well. I scratch built a loading dock. We priced it too high, and it did not sell. Maybe next season with a lower price!
Compared to todays laser cut kits, these older kits are more difficult. Some have the outlines printed on the wood, others, like the above kit, are a direction sheet, plan drawing and a bunch of wood that you have to figure out how to economically cut yourself. Another Muir kit we have is board-by-board construction doe the walls with color coded strip wood. If have not tried on old kit before, you might want to do a couple of modern laser cut kits, just to get the feel of working in wood.
I don’t think its a waste of time if you enjoy putting those kits together. Having fun is good for the soul, and I think you should do whatever makes you feel good. [:D]
Personally, I would get absolutely no satisfaction from those kits, but my priorities could very well be different from yours. The quality of many of the new kits on the market today is astounding, and the finished product outshines what master modellers used to dream of, let alone build back when those kits you bought were current on the market.
My advice is to think about what you’re trying to achieve and then consider whether these old kits deliver.
I had the same concerns as you have. So the answer to your question depends on what your present goal is for your Model Railroading hobby.
In the old days, the goal was to build nice looking kits. Today’s goal for many modelers is to build a good layout.
In days past, plastic kits were considered cheap quality and if you wanted real nice looking buildings etc., you would build craftsman kits. Now days, plastic is very fine and detailed. Thus you can build good looking models faster. And if you were a good modeler back then, just think about what you can do with excellent easy to build kits now. Thus you have a real chance of building and completing a nice layout. If you still like wood, then the new laser cut kits are for you.
The older craftsman kits are just no longer up to today’s modeling standards.
Are those the Howell Day N scale printed sides? I just happened to read the October 67 MR last night and they were the subject of a Trade Topics review.
I have an old Quality Craft wood and brass caboose kit to work on, I need something besides a Proto 2000 caboose, and while I have a pair of those E&B ones from the 70’s, those are withotu a doubt the crappiest plastic kits I ever did see. Not only are the sprues and gates the full thickness of the part, meaning plenty of clean up on each piece as it is detatched, but the pieces are also all extremely thick compared even to AThearn Blue Box kits. And both of them have some really ugly flow marks on the one side.
Sometimes the good old days weren’t so good. However, while the Quality Craft kit is going ot be by no means easy (most of the peices are not cut to length), it does seem pretty straightforward, and the pieces all appear to be good quality and nicely finished. E&B, not so much.
