Why I don’t want to go N scale.
Everything is more expensive
Not as much available, especially if you want several of the same freight car in different road numbers.
Hard to see (I’m 36 going on 50 as far as my eyes are concered)
Non-compatable with any of the clubs I know around here.
Why I might need to go N scale:
I can’t fit any ****** thing in HO scale in the sapce I have.
bangs head
I see the bait on the hook, and since I’m home on sick leave (had the ol’ appendix yoinked last week), I’ll bite.
I had many of the same misconceptions before the same space issue forced me into N scale. I went from HO to N execting one compromise after the next, treating it, at first, as if it were a different, somehow inferior, hobby. In short order I realized how wrong I was!
For mainstream products (such as Atlas locos/cars) prices are comparable. DCC in N scale is a little more expensive, but not staggeringly so.
Almost all new N scale releases come with multiple car numbers. Even MicroTrains offers “Runner Packs” which are 4-packs of the same car w/ different car numbers.
I’m 34 and I wear glasses. I just keep my perscription up to 20/20 and I’m good to go. An Optivisor is a good investment no matter what the scale.
No NTrak clubs near you? No big deal. With N scale you can be a one-man club and take your layout to shows - that’s what I do!
I am now very glad I switched to N scale. Even now, with a sizeable basement, I would not change back to HO. The biggest advantage N has over HO regardless of one’s layout space is the scenery-to-trains ratio. If this is not important to you, it may not seem like a big deal. But for me, I’m used to railfanning in the mountains of central Pennsylvania, and so the scenery is a big part of that.
Certainly glad you are recovering there Dave; I spent twenty-seven days in the hospital recovering from a ruptured appendix back in April-May, 2004.
I’m going to ditto your comments for most of the reasons you outline were the same ones that led me to bolt HO-Scale for N-Scale back in 1982-83. WaxonWaxov’s post implies that there is a space problem in his life; I had one also and my HO-Scale steamers just didn’t loo
First, what is your space requirement?
What are your must haves and druthers?
Do you want to fill up a room? Or just a small space?
Check into the European clubs and/or scene as to see what they can do in small spaces.
I guess here’s the real question I have right now:
In the HO thing I am trying to design, there are a couple places where it’s 18" radius or it will not fit, period. And that’s 18" radius directly from straight. This is (mostly) in staging. Since it’s in staging will this be a big problem? This is early 1950’s branch line, GP-7s pulling general freight (yes, some flats). Passenger service will be RDC’s.
WaxonWaxov says…
Why I don’t want to go N scale.
1) Everything is more expensive
Wrong-Oh. Good running diesels can be had for around $60, a few very good steamers can be had for under $100. Track is less expensive generally, foot for foot. Atlas Trainman rolling stock can be had for under $10 a car, often under $7. That’s including knuckle couplers and low pro wheels, and in many cases, multiple road numbers.
2) Not as much available, especially if you want several of the same freight car in different road numbers.
Okay, so you can’t have your choice of right handed or left handed conductors, and there are certain areas that have gaps, such as structures and detail parts. But you already said your space is constricted, so really, how much you gonna need?
3) Hard to see (I’m 36 going on 50 as far as my eyes are concered)
Oh Shut Up.[V] I’m 44 and nearsighted. Been fiddling with N scale for 30 years plus, and plan to continue until death do us part. One of the advantages of N scale and failing eyesight is you don’t worry so much about the stuff you can’t see anyway… As Dave remarked, the joy of N scale is watching a long train snake through a sweeping vista… In that scenario there’s nothing wrong with the three feet away rule…
4) Non-compatable with any of the clubs I know around here.
That’s not your fault or N scale’s fault…Clubs often are entrenched with ideas that were prevelent when they were founded. HO, being the lowest common denominator, is usually the default scale for most clubs but it does serve them well. I’m in the same boat, the club near me has an outstanding HO layout, complete with full signalling and operations (which I really like) so I maintain a small fleet of HO equipment that’s compatible with the theme of the layout there.
The equipment you describe should take an 18" radius curve OK, though the RDC might not look great doing it. But you don’t have to have an oval or loop to have a layout!!
It depends on how important ‘continous running’ is to you. Right now my layout is the first stage of a larger layout, it’s basically an L-shaped shelf layout 12’ x 13’, 16" wide. I use No.6 turnouts exclusively, and 30" minimum radius with no troubles. Right now it’s a four track yard (which will eventually be my staging yard) with the track closest to the aisle having a team track area, and the track along the backrop having a couple of Walthers flats as industries (or it will once I get them built!). There’s also one siding on the other leg of the L that has a small business and a pulpwood loading area.
Takes about 30-45 min to ‘operate’ the layout, switching 8-10 cars around, and I find it to be quite fun - and this is from someone who always had continous running on all my layouts going back to 1971.
Glad you’re feeling better. An appendix is an easy thing to get rid of these days, but the recovery is a big pain in the butt. At least you’re up and around and writing about N-Scale. Just take it easy and you’ll be as good as new shortly.
As for waht you say about not making any compromises, you’re absolutely right. besised, you can fit almost 4 times as much in N-Scale as you could with HO in the same area. No one wsays you shold do it because most railroad scenes look toy-like if you crowd them. Real railroads aren’t crowded unless they involve urban scenery or yards.
Irv
If it’s in staging who is going to see it? If you’re worried about operational problems such as derailments caused by sharp curves, Then maybe there is a problem and maybe there isn’t since most HO equipment is designed to go around 18" curves.
In in N Scale and 18 inch curves aren’t a problem there since most N scale equipment in designed to go around 9 3/4" in curves. I have never used anything less than 11 inch and I tried to avoid even that.
Irv
that’s an interesting point (idea).
My big heart burn with NTrak is the whole three-track mainline issue (I’m sure you’ve heard that before)
Those three tracks aren’t all mainline though they can be used as such. The two outside lines are mainlines. But the thrid (blue) is a branchline and can meander all over any particular module. Most N-Trak layouts I have seen do seem to use it as a mainline but there is a movement in N-Trak to have modules with only two tracks on the front side.
As for your own layout at home, you don’t have to use N-Trak standards as far as track is concerned.
Irv
Lee, that’s a great video. And then you get to see another great video of Dave’s layout too!
Those videos show some of what N scale has to offer, great scenery, long trains, great detail.
Just think of what your scene could look like with 18 " radius curves with N Scale. All I can say is WOW!!!
There is an awful lot more offered in N Scale than 20 years ago, and the quality gets better and better.
Craig
Then I guess you need a bigger space bangs wallet
If N scale is more expensive it’s because you need roughly 4 times more stuff to fill a square foot than HO. At one time I’d wrestled with the idea of building my HO layout in N scale, same space, (mostly the) same track plan (how many cars does a 18’ siding hold in N scale?).
In the end I stuck with HO (already had a big HO investment) and preferred the visibility of HO over N (I’d also thought about building an O scale industrial layout - speaking of visble models).
FWIW
Charlie
I agree with you 100% about the three track mainline, but if you really boil it down, the main benefit of Ntrak is the exposure it provides for the scale, and the comaraderie it fosters among its adherents… It really can’t be about operations or “real” scenery due to the nature of the beast. However, many N trak clubs are adding the “One Track” concept as Cuyama notes, which provides a platform for a much more realistic type of model railroading in a modular setting. It’s also a lot easier to work a One Track module into your home layout than an Ntrak standard design.
Lee
I think that was what I was looking for. thanks
Thanks to all others’ thoughts on this thread.
And HO modulars isn’t 3 track? Guess again…[:O]
As far as N Scale modulars layouts…
Ever hear of oNe track N scale modulars? How about Free-mo?
Your old school arguments is outdated.
You would be better off to use those 18" curves and forget the “expert” advice against 18" curves especially since you say you are modeling a branch line.
No. 3 is a deal breaker. If one can’t work with or appreciate the tiny models, what’s the point? This is even more important if you are a builder and not just a buyer. Arguments from others saying they can work with a tiny scale is irrelevant because the decision should be based on your eyes and hands, not theirs.
If you can flourish in a club environment, that should provide an outlet for operating a “real” layout.
You have space for a home HO layout. You just don’t have the space for the kind of layout you want. (This makes you a member of the largest subset of model railroad enthusiasts.) A shelf layout can provide a creative outlet and provide switching operation. A club layout could satisfy your other needs a small home layout won’t fulfil.
Mark
I laugh when I read the knocks on N-scale because of someone’s eyesight.
I mean my gosh, are there places in this country where eye-glasses aren’t allowed?
As I started back into N-scale after a hiatus of several years, it was clearly apparent to me that my eyesight had changed. My wife came out to the railroad room and watched me take my glasses on/off in order to see up close.
She said, in a very nice way of course, “Well dummy why don’t you go have your eyes checked?”
I put my vanity/fear of all eye tests aside, and went.
I still take off my glasses when I’m doing something very close, like painting the windows on DPM building, but for everything else my glasses allow me to appreciate my N-scale “empire” both close & far away.
Let me say something else, the “smallness” of N-scale allows one to get away with a multitude of “sins” when it comes to scenery/detailing that one could never get away with in the larger sales. Plus it’s not like you never have to deal with small parts and such when you work with HO-- I know better than that.
Caveat - I model in twice-N scale (1:80, aka HOj):
If you don’t like the triple track on a standard N-trak module, just build one - and mate it end-on to a yard throat. Viola! Three track yard. The rest of the layout can be whatever you want it to be.
If your druthers don’t fit your givens, one or the other will have to be adjusted. Since the givens are usually set in concrete (or studs and plasterboard)…
If you are starting from scratch, with no rolling stock, you CAN model HO, or N, or Z, or Gn2, or whatever. What you can fit in your space will determine exactly what and how you model.
No matter which scale you pick, it will cost YOU exactly the same $$ amount - the amount that you budget for it.
In my own modeling, my reach often exceeded my grasp. I was drawing Social Security before I finally got enough room to build the smallest practical iteration of my dream layout. Before that, I made do with minilayouts, extended dioramas and club operation.
IMHO the best possible resolution of HO druthers in an N scale space is HOn30 (aka HOe, HOn2.5, HOn762…) I doubt that many people here will agree.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - including two HOjn762 feeders)