Can anyone help me find out what kind and how many cars were pulled by the A&B comuter trains. I am trying to get this correct for my HO layout. I currently have the ConCor 72’ cars and the Proto 2000 A&B units.
Thanks for the help.
I’d like to try to help but I am confused by your question and need more information.
The commuter cars were not the “400” although similar looking bi-level cars were on the “Flambeau 400.” However I am pretty sure B unit E’s were not seen on the Flambeau 400. Likewise I do not think they were ever seen on commuter trains.
The true 400 (Chicago to Twin Cities via Milwaukee) went through several editions. There were other 400s as well.
So which train are you talking about?
Try to find a copy of Jim Scribbins’ book the 400 Story (out of print but often seen at swap meets).
Dave Nelson
Ok sorry for the confusion. I will ask this in a better way. I have the 72’cars. I only have four types at this time. They are the full baggage, coach #2, diner and sleeper. They are not the bi-level cars. They are Green on top with gold bottoms and the silver lettering. The problem I am having is trying to figure out what to use to lead them and if there are more cars I should have in this set. Also if anyone could help me with the years these types of cars were used I would be most thankful. I hope this helps a little more then the original post did.
The cars that you are describing would not have been part of the commuter car fleet. Most of the CNW commuter fleet was made up of coaches with an occastional lounge/tavern car on the longer suburban runs.
Prior to the bi-level cars of the late 1950’s, most of the commuter cars were roller bearing coaches painted in more of a Pullman Green type of color.
The cars that you are describing would have been part of the regular passenger pool of long distance trains. They would be appropriate for a train from about 1939 to the use of bi-level cars on long distance trains in the 1960’s. Best guideline would be from about 1940 to the mid 1960’s.
They would have been pulled by a variety of E units from the E-3’s of the 1939 to the E-8’s. Converted F units eventually supplemented the E units in the 1960’s on some of the suburban bi-level trains and were also found on some of the long distance trains. The old E units were being retired.
As mentioned earlier, try to find a copy of “The 400 Story” by Jim Scribbins. Some libraries might even have a copy of it. The book gives the best overview of the engines and cars that were used by the CNW for it premier trains.
Scott Sonntag
Thank you very much for your help. That makes it just the right time frame for my layout as I like both steam and the E and F units.
Hi “reddevil,” I had the chance to look up the Jim Scribbins book, “The 400 Story,” others have referred to. Here’s the original consist of the first “400” streamliners of 1939: 2 E6 A units (A-A) Baggage-tavern-lunch counter-lounge 4 coaches Dining car 3 parlor cars Parlor-bar lounge-observation The “400” was a daytime train between Chicago and the Twin Cities, and took its name from its route mileage and scheduled running time, which were both close to 400. As a daytime train it didn’t need sleeping cars. The parlor cars were day accommodations for first-class passengers. A photo showing the westbound train No. 401 in April 1963 revealed some consist changes: 2 E7 A units (A-A) Baggage-tavern-lunch counter-lounge 3 coaches Dining car 2 coaches Parlor-bar lounge-observation By that time there was much less first-class trade, and the parlor space in the observation car had been enlarged enough to handle all of it. There were now five coaches, even though the overall length of the train had dropped from ten to eight cars. The A-A locomotive consists were very typical, as the C&NW didn’t own any B units. So long, Andy
Thanks Andy, that is exactly what I needed.
The Con-Cor cars you have are shorties but are excellent choices for a 400 because they’re based on the CNW 400 cars. w/o checking pix of models vs prototype the window patterns are probably 2 or 3 windows short but the overall pattern on the coaches, w/ the 3 windows for the rest rooms at one end and the highly distinctive 400 observation car w/ the hump-back wind deflector at the rear of the roof will give you a good looking 400 if you can live w/ the shorty cars. You’ll have to loose the Pullman though as the 400s were all coach or parlor. There was a regular fleet of them but only the Twin Cities 400 had an observation car./ Power tended to be AA E-units
i bought a set of con cor cars and a A with motor and B dummy E8 units. had a post office car a baggage car ,a diner ,observation car, sleeper car ,couple coaches and a rear observation car. 8 cars plus 2 units.cnw green and yellow. about 200.00. my great grandfather was an engineer on 400 train ran from chi. to minn. home terminal was adams wi.i was about eight years old when they quit runnin it. wow almost 50 years ago.
These links are to black & white photographs from 60 years ago
A train at St. Paul on 8/29/46, certainly not The 400
http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvn-jpgs/RVN12194.jpg
The 400 at St. Paul on 8/31/46
http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvn-jpgs/RVN12201.jpg
Mike
Oops !! If you look carefully, the first pic is a Milwaukee train not CNW. Guessing by the sun angle and the location (this pic was taken from the Robert St. bridge, I’m currently at work at 600 N. Robert St. so am pretty close to there !!) that is probably the Afternoon Hiawatha (??)
I didn’t know the Con-Cor cars were based on CNW cars !! I’m planning a section of my new layout to be a CNW line, might have to look into modelling the 400.
The 400 was my Dad’s favorite train when it first came out in 1935, because it was a “real” train (i.e. non-streamlined and steam powered). BTW the first E units the CNW bought for the train arrived before the cars, so for a few months the E units pulled the Pullman Green heavyweight 400.
Oops is right, sorry about that. Hopefully these links are more better
The 400 at St. Paul on 8/31/46
http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvn-jpgs/RVN12200.jpg
The 400 at St. Paul on 3/7/51
http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvn-jpgs/RVN12753.jpg
Mike
just curious is any body from harvard, il or close by read these posts? or am i the only one.
I just found this site. It has a lot of great photos from steam to MOWS.
Darin
The only E series B units that CNW own, they put a cab on them called Crandall cabs.
C&NW suburban trains ran up to 8-9 bi-level cars in rush hour. They were usually pulled by only one locomotive, either an F7A or any of the E8/E9’s.
Keep in mind that after the original Mpls/St.Paul - Chicago “400” succeeded there were several other smaller 400’s added, like the Minnesota 400 (streamlined yellow 4-6-2 pulling streamlined cars) which became the Dakota 400 (similar cars only with one-two E units) that ran from Chicago but made a left turn in Wisconsin and went across the southern tier of MN cities (Rochester particularly - the train had a car with special doors to allow patients going to / from the Mayo Clinic to be unloaded via stretcher) and into South Dakota. The Peninsula 400 and Flambeau 400 served northern Wisc. and upper Michigan. North of Green Bay, the Peninsula 400 was sometimes just one E unit and a couple of passenger cars.
Anyway, one of these smaller “pike size” trains might fit your layout better than a full size standard 400.