Anyone had exposure and running time with both of these models on DCC layouts? The Intermountain is a curved face AC11 or 12 and the Broadway Limited Blueline is flat faced. I prefer the later curved versions but haven’t seen anything online (user reviews) concerning which is the better model performance/dependabiltlity/warrantee wise. I have seen the BLI in person and the detail is wonderful. Does the Intermountain compare visually? I know that the N scale Intermountain initially had some serious issues but I think they’ve been de-bugged for 2nd release? How does the HO version compare? Thanks very much.
Captain,
My layout is HO, DCC. I own two of the BLI’s from the first run. I borrowed an Intermountain AC and ran it on my layout for a few weeks. The BLI’s run better and are more reliable. The Intermountain was much better looking (downright gorgeous), but had serious trouble staying on the track and didn’t pull real well.
My experience has been duplicated by many users. The common wisdom if you want an AC-12 is to wait for the re-issue of the Intermountain due later this year. Word on the street is that they have fixed the problems in the first run. I will probably pick up one of the re-issues. Sounds like the same story in N scale?
I have had no issues with my BLI’s and they have seen many hours of operation. They are pretty good pullers (25 cars up a 2% grade) and run very well.
There are photos of them at my railimages in my sig. if you want to see how they look.
Guy
Captain:
Can’t help you specifically with DCC, but I can report what I know about the two models. The BLI AC-4/5 is dual-mode, very smooth running. I have one of the original runs of the AC-5 and it’s powerful as all get out, with great sound. I’ve heard terrific things about it from DCC users as far as reliability, smoothness and power. On my DC layout, it’s a very smooth runner.
The first fun of the Intermountain AC 8-12’s had quite a few problems with the drive train and tracking. I have not heard about a newer version, though I understand one is in the works. The Intermountain is prototypically articulated (only the rear set of drivers under the boiler front swings) whereas the BLI is the typical unprototypical ‘double-articulation’ so popular with today’s big locomotives. Top speed on the Intermountain was about 35smph (the prototype was rated at 70mph), and it was a poor hauler. Balance problems caused it to derail frequently. The detail–at least of the one I saw at my LHS when they were first released, was absolutely spectacular.
I have heard that Intermountain is working hard to improve the newer release of this loco–I for one will be interested to see how it turns out. But I would say that if you’re looking for a DCC Cab-forward, your best bet right now is the ‘older’ AC-‘flat-face’ 4/5 from BLI. Unless you want to wait and see what the newer Intermountains have to offer. Hopefully, they’ve ‘de-bugged’ the original run.
Frankly, if BLI had chosen the later AC-6 as its prototype (the last of the ‘flat faces’ but the true transitional model between ‘flat’ and ‘round’ face), I’d have a fleet of the darned things.
Tom [:)]
Of the AC’s I’d love to have seen an AC-7 as well. I prefer the looks of the 12, but I think I’d like a 5 too. I love SPCabs
Tom
You summed up the two models well. I have one of each and the Intermountain AC12 looks very good on a shelf, but it does not handle layouts and its top speed is about 25mph. It does sound good and it has both the horn and whistle, which sounds like the SP type. A new revised version is in the works, but no one knows how good that one will be until they get here. I was thinking of removing the cab from the Intermountain and installing it on one of the BLI AC-4’s to make the AC-6. Key made the AC6, but they are not cheap any longer.
If Intermountain offers any parts, that might be a good way of getting a good cab to modify one of the older AC4’s. The BLI AC-4’s do run well and will pull a fair amount. I have the original and not the Blue Line model, but I would bet the chassis drive is built much the same.
I emailed Intermountain recently to verify the new model is coming our way soon, but have no reply as of today.
Both the BLI and the Intermountain run well on DCC, but that is speaking of the electronics. Most of the Intermountain models do not track well
Thanks guys for the detailed responses. I had heard (wrongly) that the 2nd run of the Intermountain was completed. Thanks CZ for checking to see how that’s going. Let us know what you hear? Too bad the Paragon 2 version of the AC 12 is going to be too spendy for me compared with the Blueline. I was very impressed with the detailing on the Blueline ACs. The Intermountain must have been VERY impressive visually. It’s hard to trust a company that’ll release a locomotive that’s too top heavy to run on a layout though…makes you wonder. Did they test run the things? Do they have other locomotives with good reputations? I like their rolling stock…
I’m saddled with a first-run AC-12. If they don’t “do me” right, I’m not buying any more of their stuff. Right now, it doesn’t look good. They haven’t answered any of my correspondence (3). In hindsight, I should have returned the thing as soon as received when I found all the wheels out of gauge. I’m beginning to think I shouldn’t have relied on the promises its CEO made last fall.
DO YOU HEAR ME INTERMOUNTAIN? IT AIN’T A THREAT, IT’S A FACT!
Mark
I have had exposure to all of the above both on my home layout, at our local club and at the San Diego Model RR Museum. I agree with all the comments listed. I suggest that if you want excellent running, a long life and no derailments from an AC-12, get a hold of a Rivarossi. Mine runs through Peco small radius passing sidings and 3.5% grades on my home layout. You can always super detail a good running locomotive but it is much harder to debug a poorly design one. Peter Smith, Memphis
Peter, is your Rivarossi a new-ish DCC version? I actually own a DC version from 1989-91 (Red Box). It runs fine on code 83 but don’t know (and haven’t been able to find out) the driver flange’s actual size. I’ve considered DCC powering this model as it’s still “brand new” but I’ve read and heard that it’s cost would be similar to a new model by the time I’ve done and that the older Rivarossi Cab Forwards had spring and electrical pickup parts that wear out quickly with replacements hard to come by. Do you by chance have any experience or info. relating to that? Thanks.
My Rivarossi was a retirement gift in January 2006. It is a “red box” DC. My home layout is based on a 1909 SP branch line and I seldom run it at home. It does run well on code 83. I have code 55 sidings but I have not run it on my sidings. Maybe I will check that out. In the last three years, I have run it on our club modular RR that exhibits at a local museum during the month of October. I have run it for eight hours strait for an average of about six days a year during a three year period pulling as many as 28 PFE reefers at a time. I have never had any problems. Peter Smith, Memphis
I guess by the responses here, I am the odd man out. I own the Intermountain AC-12 and absolutely love it. I have friends (3) who own the BLI AC4/5 and hate the thing with a passion, and aren’t real fond of BLI, either.
Intermountain AC-12 pros:
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Correctly detailed body and tender.
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Excellent tracking with all wheels in gauge right out of the box.
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Superior motor control and outstanding slow speed operation, once broken in properly in accordance with Intermountain’s instructions. “Oiling around” really helps. Quiet operation of the motor and drive train enhanced after break in…
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Excellent paint job; accurate per SP paint diagrams.
Intemountain AC-12 cons:
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Price. The sound equipped DCC version is a tad pricey, but most things are these days.
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Programming. The AC-12 initially would not take to programming on a programming track, but programming on the main was fine. It also readily took to programming with DecoderPro, and after hooking up my signal booster, it programmed fine in all modes.
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Disassembly. The locomotive is basically not designed to be taken apart by the consumer for servicing, which should not be required. I wanted to add the stack light that so many of the AC’s were retrofitted with, but upon the advice of Intermountain, I did not do the modification as they advised againts attempting to disassemble the model.
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The AC-12 is designed almost exactly like the prototype, with a rigid front engine. What this means is that if you do not have the curves to handle it, the front engine will climb the rail. Eased 24 inch radius curves are the minimum for this thing, for reliable operation. Further, it will find de
4man, thanks for your feedback. Are your friends receiving good post purchase service (even though they shouldn’t have to?) I have to say that on Blueline’s heavy MIkado, the sounds are excellent and the best I have in my fleet. I’d heard good things about the chuffs sound(s) on the articulateds. Do you have any idea why your Intermountain seems to have escaped the bad rap it’s gotten? Do you think you got lucky or folks just aren’t reading the manuals? It sounds like their lst issue production had a lot of problems. Anyway, glad to hear something good about them, finally. I’ve got time to budget (afford) a cab forward so I’ll keep listening and watching…
Peter, thanks for that! I’ve been trying to decide whether or not to continue running mine as a DC loco on a DCC layout. Afraid I’d burn 'er up or not be able to easily replace parts later. Sounds like running it 'til it becomes an issue is viable. I can keep saving for a DCC version of one of the other brands later OR see if the newer Rivarossi’s have improved the quantity of their electrical pickup shoes on the drivers and tender. Rivarossi doesn’t seem to have caught up in that dept. to more modern companies/versions. The MR review of the Big Boy took note of this… Anyway I’ll continue to have fun with mine as I extend/build the remainder of the layout.
Intermountain’s manuals leave something to be desired. The “manual” was basically a set of sheets with pre-break in lubrication instructions and decoder info.
I do not have access to anyone else who owns a BLI cab forward, so I realy can’t say from any personal experience. I do have a pal here in the Austin area who owns an SD40-2 and the sound is horrible out of that thing as well. I have heard that the sound on the 2-8-2 is very good, but I can’t say from experience. Another local pal bought one of the ATSF Northerns and wound up selling it after a few frustrating months with poor operation, rods falling off and electrical issues, although I can say that one had a decent sound system. That experience caused me to shy away from BLI initially.
I’m not certain if I lucked out or Intermountain got it right. I do know that I go over everything on new steam locomotives with a fine tooth comb, and I checked screws holding the rods, lubricated all points identified in the owner instructions and checked wheel gauge and such. If I had a set of rollers, I would have broken the engine in that way, but running it on the lower level loop on my layout allowed me to find defects in the track that might have escaped me otherwise.
It’s really like buying a car, I suppose. Some folks like one make over another, and always will. I guess I am an Intermountain man, and if I hadn’t soured on BLI and BlueLine in particular, so early, I guess I would have an AC4/5 or two by now.
Good luck in your research. Manufacturers, take note. It shouldn’t have to be this way. Everything should work the way it was intended.