I’m going to ask a somewhat naive question: Were marker lights on the rear end of cabooses detachable vs fixed?
I was looking at photos of NYC cabooses this evening on Fallen Flags and on some .pdf files of old Central Headlight issues and noted that only a few had marker lights or discs on the rear. The corner pillars of the caboose, however, did have what appeared to be a bracket, which I presume was originally used for hanging kerosene lanterns upon?
I was interested in adding working marker lights to one or two of my brass or plastic NYC cabooses but then noticed that few were actually outfitted with them. It would make sense if they were detachable. One photo even showed an NYC caboose with a disc on the left rear but no disc on the right rear. That’s when I deduced that perhaps signals might be detachable and only displayed in certain situations vs fixed and only illuminate when needed.
I appreciate your input and knowledge base. Thanks for the help…
Others may have more or better information than I, but it’s my understanding that marker lights were required for dark-time running. They were usually removable, since they were ordinary kerosene lamps with colored lenses with circular brackets around them. The brackets had flanged protrusions which were slid down into slotted sockets in plates fastened on each corner of the caboose carbody. Depending on the road, the lenses could have red and green or red and yellow lenses so they’d show red to the rear on both rear corners. The lamps could be rotated in the bracket hoops to change what aspect showed rearward. Some roads required the markers on a train occupying a passing siding to be changed on the side toward the main to let engineers of overtaking trains know the train was in the clear. This also let the engine crew know the
Kerosene lamps were "removeable’ so the lamp could be refilled and the lenses changed (some rules required different markers depending on whether the train was in the clear of the main or not).
Electrical markers tend to be more fixed, although some were removeable. Battery operated markers tended to be removeable. For example on the MP, in 1979, all the marker lights on all the cabooses were fixed electrical type. However on the NYC, since the cabooses were built prior to the 1970’s, the chances are higher they would have been kerosene and removeable.
Thank you for your input. This is all great information.
I am modelling the NYC; hence why I was viewing photos of NYC cabooses on Fallen Flags and from certain .pdf issues of Central Headlight. So it does appear that the NYC had removeable markers/paddles on the rear of their cabooses.
When did the electrical & battery-operated markers come onto use? Was it a gradual transition, or was it mandated?
This discussion reminds me of operating sessions I used to attend at a Great Northern transition-era layout by a guy who was a stickler for prototype practices (and there was not a shred of scenery on the layout that I recall).
He had meticulously placed marker lamps on the rear of his GN cabooses. But they were scale sized, not movable, and thus one of his demands when making up a train was that the caboose with the markers on the “wrong” end be sent to the turntable before being added to a train, whether it was a center cupola caboose or an end cupola caboose. Since he couldn’t swap the markers to the other end he had to reverse the car, in other words.
There were some mock-heated discussions about this. He had no good defense for putting a center cupola caboose on the turntable other than his desire to have the markers be at the rear of the train. But he claimed the GN itself would send end-cupola cabooses to a wye or turntable so the cupola was always at the far end of the train, but guys delighted in finding old GN photos showing plenty of end-cupola cabooses where the cupola was closer to the train.
The layout owner tolerated a certain amount of ribbing about turning the cabooses on the turntable. But he would not tolerate that ribbing over his railroad telephone system. That was for prototypical talk only, using prototypical vocabulary.
OT - but that same guy insisted that every outbound “loaded” reefer had to go to the icing platform and you had to count off a certain number of minutes for each car.
Also OT - every operating session began with at least a 30 minute lecture from the owner on prototype practices.
IIRC on the PRR and B&O it was around the late 1950s and early 1960s when the oil markers were giving way to battery markers and then maybe a little later they started going to premanently attached electric markers on some cabooses (cabin cars). Some Conrail cabooses were still using the portable battery markers even in the late 1970s.
I think it was fairly common that portable markers, oil or battery, were to be displayed unlit in daylight and lit at night, through tunnels and in times of reduced visibility, but a lot of crews would just leave them on all the time. Permanently attached markers were to be lit continuously day and night whenever markers were required.
That is, you do not have a “train” until the markers are displayed.
A Train is an engine or more than one engine coupled, with or without cars, displaying markers.
This was very important in pre-CTC days as the operator had to see the markers of the train before he could write “OS” on the train sheet.
The operator could not clear any further movements until he saw those markers and knew that the train was “complete”. Possibly the crew cut the rear half off, possibly the train was doubling a hill or doing switching with the caboose cut off.
The operator could not report the train “by” without seeing those markers, weather it was a flag or disk by day (day-marker) or lamps by night.
When NYC began to take delivery of the steel bay-window cabooses which had electrical systems, the permanent Pyle markers became common. It wouldn’t matter that there was another pair of markers at the front end of the caboose. The only ones that mattered were at the far end.
Thanks for the excerpt from the '37 NYCS rule book! [Y][:P] I now have a .pdf version of the entire book myself thanks to Terry Link’s CASO website. I will study it and may come back with more questions.
DSO17, I appreciate your input, as well - Thanks!
Tom
[Edit: I just picked up a '48 reprinted hardcopy of the said rule book in VG condition for $20. A .pdf file is a handy thing. However, sometimes leafing through the actual book is more rewarding. I think it will be $20 well-invested. [:D]]
Next question: Is the marker light in the earlier posted photo of the Big Four caboose considered a 4-way Adlake?
Do any manufacturer’s produce a 4-way marker light in HO? (I checked and Tomar only offers 3-way: G-G-R or Y-Y-R.) Or, is my only option a 4-way brass marker with fixed jewels?
Or…I guess I can just leave them off and pretend. Seems like that would be as difficult to model accurately as slipping drivers…
By the 1956 NYC rule book, the marker rule had been simplified and changed to refect “modern” technology.
The different colors for things were greatly simplified.
Rule 19 : The rear of a train will be identified by marker lamps, one on each side, displayed as follows:
By day, on cars not equipped with permanent electric marker lamps, marker lamps not lighted; on engines and cars equipped with permanent electric marker lamps, marker lamps lighted as at night.
By night, on engines and cars, marker lamps lighted showing red to the rear, except in manual block signal system territory, or non-block territory, marker lamps showing yellow to the rear when train or engine is clear of main track.
A trains not equipped to display the markers prescribed by this rule will display on rear of train; by day, a red flag; by night, a red light.
Note - Where the rear car is equipped with permanent built-in marker lights, such lights will be used in lieu of standard marker lamps.
I need to build some cabooses for my freelanced roads, and plan to modify the brass marker lamps from Cal-Scale by removing the mounting lugs and replacing them with either a soldered-on wire or a short length of square brass bar-stock, which should allow me to move them to the proper end of the caboose, as necessary, and not leave gaping holes.
I have junction where many trains need to reverse direction - the locomotives are either cut-off and run to a nearby wye to get them headed in the right direction, or replaced entirely with a fresh set.
However, cutting off the caboose and taking it for turning is too time-consuming, so repositionable markers will allow a simple run-around move to place it on the rear of the train.
Is it really necessary to have the 4-way? If you have toward the front, toward the rear, and toward the outside lighted, do you need to have toward the inboard lighted?
I’m just trying to mimic what the NYC used and their marker lights were 4-way. (See Ed’s post and diagrams above from the '37 NYCS rule book.) There were also different lighting aspects depending on where the caboose was located, how many tracks there were, and whether the train was heading with or against the “current of traffic”.
I’m not going to go super geeky in regards to prototype accuracy but I’d like to get as close as possible, within reason. It may suffice to just go with Cal-Scale brass marker lights and “pretend” they are lit. Lighted markers would be pretty cool though.
