I’ve been reading the manual files for CADRAIL 9 and ANYRAIL 4 with the hope of deciding which will work best to draw my new 13’ x 9’ horseshoe shaped HO layout. Anyrail seems simpler but does not have some of the nice tools, while Cadrail is more complex and has tools I may never need or use. Both programs are priced within $10 of each other. Each will require a learning curve of several hours so I don’t want to learn both before selecting one to purchase. I would appreciate any input from modelers who have used either. Thanks. Capt. Brigg
Brigg I’ll add to the confusion a little in hopes of eliminating it. Have you considered 3D Plan it?
http://www.trackplanning.com/ You can download the program for free and try the full version before buying (you just can’t save anything you;ve made) I also know of an amazing free tutorial for it if you are interested that will speed you through the learning curve. I “built” my current layout in it in about 3 hours, was running 2 trains on it and have no CAD experience (you can run anything you build in it like the Trainz program)
ratled
hi,
i found Atlas RTS rather easy to learn, is free. Only the library is limited to atlas products.
BTW, designing your RR can be done on the back of an envelope; without nasty surprises after wards if you are using the good old squares invented by John Armstrong. Making a neat drawing is Cad-programs forte.
paul
worth reading: - Byron Henderson’s Layout Design blog
you might study this entry : http://www.layoutvision.com/id40.html
There is XTrkCAD also free, It has a large library of track from different manufacturers.
I may be adding confusion to your quest, but I recently downloaded XTrakCad to use to design a 10’ x 10’ 9" shelf layout. It did take some learning to use, but it is free and has a rather extensive track library built in. It will let you create your own track pieces and supports layering for scenic design. There are other features that allude to operation, but I have not gotten there yet. I was using it to see if my pencil drawings were feasible. There are most likely better packages, but this one was in my price range. (the pension check doesn’t go that far now).[swg]
Ratled:
Thanks for your info, but I’ve eliminated 3rd Planit as the subscription price is double that of Anyrail and Cadrail. I’m still reading the manuals and learning.[8-|]
I have used CADRail for 15+ years and like it because it is versatile and intuitive to use. I have used it to design my workshop, my layout (which is under construction), 2 bathroom remodels and a kitchen remodel. You can also run trains on your design to see if the operation is feasible or to simply get a feel for how it would be to operate.
Regards,
John
That $60 or so difference is pretty small compared to everything else you’ll spend on a layout and the number of hours you’ll spend learning any program, IMHO.
Disclaimer: I’ve been a 3rd PlanIt user for years and have designed over a hundred layouts with it. Before that I used CADRail.
The CADRail user interface is more like that of a traditional CAD program (click-move-click). 3rd PlanIt and AnyRail are a bit more like a typical Windows program interface (actually, 3rd PlanIt offers the opiton). In exploring an early AnyRail demo, I found some discrepancies between the program’s templates and the actual turnout dimensions. But that was a while back, so it’s probably been fixed.
Just to be sure, you might want to print out 1:1 copies of the templates for the turnouts you plan to use to compare to the actual parts. (No matter which program you choose). I believe that you can do that from any of the demos.
In my experience, the user interface (especially for involved tasks like setting grades) is really what makes a program more or less useable for me. So if I were shopping for a program now, I’d devote a lot of time to the demos and tutorials.
And as Paulus noted, if designing just one layout for yourself, simpler tools may be more intuitive and quicker to master than a CAD program.
Byron
As an experianced Residential Designer who stil does it the old way by hand, and, who has some CADD experiance, and who has been in the hobby for 40 years and designed several layouts for others modelers as well as myself, let me suggest as several other posters did:
Unless you are planning to do a lot of this, and if you have ANY manual drafting skills at all, and assuming you understand trackwork geometry, the learning curve of ANY CADD program will exceed the time needed to work it out by hand on paper, especially for the size layout you are talking about.
I have developed layout concepts on the back of envelopes and on napkins, then transfered them to working drawings by hand in just a few hours - you aready have that much time in picking out software?
The primary advantages of CADD, for anything are the layers and other “features”, 3-D, calulations, etc. - not saving drafting time. In fact many things take much longer even for experianced CADD operators, but those other features same time and money in a commercial or industrial setting, or as a sales tool with consumers.
Give me a dimensioned sketch for your average home addition and I can have a working concept drawing of the floor plan before a CADD operator has all the existing points plotted - I just can’t push a button and show you a 3-D picture of it.
Now if you like to play with computers - that’s another story…
Sheldon
I agree that basic concepts can be drawn by hand and explored more “freely” than on CAD, but to produce an accurate development of that concept, CAD is best if you use it correctly and “obey” its demand for accuracy.
Another major, major advantage of a CAD program (yes, its worth even more than two “majors!”), as with computerized word processing, spread sheets, data bases, etc., is the ability to make changes to the original quickly and immediately thereafter have a finished document without redoing it entirely. Those changes can range from simple tweaks and corrections to significant alternatives. For a small example, I just designed a view block/backdrop first with a quick pencil sketch, then made an accurate simple CAD perspective drawing. Based on that original, I quickly tweaked the design, then executed it in 3 different color schemes in much less time than I could have done it all by hand.
Dante
PS. Once you get the hang of it, it’s fun!
Although I am a frequent (in fact, too frequent) user of a track planning program, I find it difficult to actually design a layout without having at least a rough sketch done on paper. You need to have a basic concept as a guideline, before you start"laying" track in a CAD system, especially when designing larger layouts.
CAD systems are good for performing the sanitary check, and, when enhanced a little, to visualize your dream.
Like my layout, which I am about to start to work on.
Being an engineer - 30 years (gads! I’m OLD!) - who uses CAD nearly every day, I prefer CadRail to other offerings I’ve tried, because it’s technically-oriented user interface is more in line with the professional tools I use. Those with a more “artsy” approach to things might prefer the less technical interface of programs like 3rd Planit!.
Speaking of CAD use for layout design in general, and having worked on drafting boards and a wide variety of CAD systems, I can say that I much prefer doing layout design on a computer than by hand. Simple layouts, regardless of size, may be easier done on paper, but I still prefer a CAD system. It doesn’t let you “cheat” even the tiniest bit. And for all but the simplest of plans, I think CAD is faster once you get past the learning curve. Plus you don’t have to have manual drafting skills to come up with a finished printed plan.
Here’s my track plan, done with CadRail a few years ago-
Lower Level:
!(http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.com/images/Layout Plan Images/Lower.JPG)
Upper Level:
!(http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.com/images/Layout Plan Images/Upper.JPG)
This all could have been done by hand, but using a CAD system provided a level of precision I could not have obtained otherwise without very exacting and time consuming drafting and calculation steps. Using CAD I got: a) no-fudging clearance analysis for both horizontal and vertical directions, b) exact grade computations, c) siding and spur lengths, and so on.
Designing this multi-deck, multi-level complex plan on CAD allowed me to move entire sections (like towns, yards, industry arrangements, etc.) around for best effect and most prototype arrangement.
Doing this layout by hand would have taken a LOT longer than by CAD, and I would not have been able to experiment with different arrangements nearly so easily.
Thank you for all the good input. I’ve decided to start drawing with pencil and paper and keep reading the software manuals and Armstrong’s Track Planning for Realistic Operation. I’ve previously done drafting work and took classes in school, long ago, but can see the advantages of computer accuracy and I do love my computer (and my wife). It’s like using my GPS when sailing, but also having charts at hand . I seem to have several new ideas in my head every morning and want to get them down on a plan before I forget them.
One problem I am having with the software is that I hand lay my track or use some flex track, and getting the computer software to bend the flex track just the way I need is proving a real pain. I’m thinking the only solution is to just keep experimenting, but a better tutorial would be a big help.
Yup, shaping flex track can be a real PITA and sometimes, the manuals describing the process just add to the confusion. It took me sometime to gain control of that function in RTS - it is actually dang easy - if you know it.
If you have a Mac, the program Empire Express by Haddon is basic but sufficient for track layout and very simple to learn and use (and inexpensive). Applying flex track is VERY easy-I can’t imagine why some other programs apparently make it so difficult.
Dante
I’ve decided to go with the AnyRail CAD program. I’ts not the most sophisticated of the track planners but for me it’s easy to understand and use. The only problem I’m still having, and I put this on their forum, is using the easement function on flex track. I understand what an easement is (a granule decrease in radius from straight to constant radius on both ends of a curve) and why it is used, and I use it all the time, but their function wants an angle and radius input. My minimum curve radius is 26 degrees and most big curves are 90 degrees or more (like layout corners and a turn-around.) What I get when applying it to a 3 foot piece of flex is a nine foot long piece of easement track. I’m sure I’m not understanding what parameters they are asking for and the instructions don’t help much. Any suggestions from you CAD users will be greatly appreciated.
I have created a CAD draft and picture of my mainline and hidden track. Now all I need to do is figure how to put a freight yard and business sidings in the open spaces. How does one post a picture?
You cannot directly insert a picture from your PC. Open a (free) account at www. photobucket.com, upload your picture there, copy the “direct link”, click on the film strip icon and paste the link there. Click OK - there should be your picture!
I have never used your program. One other step you may have yo do change the file to a JPG File and send to your documents. Then post on the web.
In my case I use Atlas RTS, I have to use the Save As Function, select my documents, then make it a BMP File (RTS does not give me a JPG option) send to my documents and then change to a JPG and post to my Photo Bucket.
Looking forward to see what you have came up with.
Ken