OK, all you railroaders, dispatchers, and rules buffs, I’ve got a question. I live near Terre Haute, where CSX’s CE&D Sub and St Louis Line Sub cross paths. On the CE&D (Disp by JAX), the trains call signals with train number, signal indication, direction, and sometimes engine number. On the St Louis Line (Disp by IND; ex Conrail Line) trains remain silent as they pass signals.
Why is that? Supposedly on CSX, crews are required to call signals. Why would old Conrail lines be exempt (or just this subdivision?)? If it were a question of work hours, or pay, I can see where old Conrail bargaining agreements might come into play. But with a requirement that’s supposed to be based on safety, that doesn’t “cost” the crew anything, why on earth would any division, subdivision, etc be exempt?
This is a question that I am still waiting for an answer, in Denver we called signals, (location, direction, aspect ,speed), but on Ark city sub and Emporia subin Kansas we dont, but red rock sub they do, I was told it is a BN vs. SF thing. BN was always doing SF never enforced it. On the BNSF when you call signals you call out the approach signal to a control point or controlled signal and the control point or controlled signal and only when it is less favorable than proceed.
On pre merger CSX lines the dispatcher has a separate radio channel. Therefore he is not bothered by signal calling. Ex Conrail territory dispatchers monitor the main road channel and would go nuts listening to all the trains calling signals.
On the Metrolink Valley Ventura Subdivision (Former SP coastline) the crews do call the signals so that the dispatchers can see on their board that the signals are showing the same as out on the road.
“On pre merger CSX lines the dispatcher has a separate radio channel. Therefore he is not bothered by signal calling. Ex Conrail territory dispatchers monitor the main road channel and would go nuts listening to all the trains calling signals.”<<<
Huh. Yep, I guess that makes sense. The Conrail line uses only one freq, and the CSX line uses a DS and a Road freq. It seems like if it’s such a safety issue, they could come up with some more creative frequency assignments. Thanks for the answer. I wouldn’t have considered that reason.
The answer you got from the poster about the seperate radio channels is correct. If I had to hear every train call every signal it would drive me nuts. What I do to help crews is let them know well in advance, when possible, where they will make meets and with how many trains. I used to run on the CE&D as a conductor and it helped calling out signals so you knew where other trains were at. On the former conrail side your only clues are defect detectors and the dispatcher. The Indianapolis office just transfered to a newer dispatching system, the same as Jacksonville. Soon after, the dispatchers of the former Conrail sidewill monitor a seperate channel just like the CE&D side. So, soon enough you’ll hear ALL the trains through Terre Haute calling signals.
At the Illinois Railway Museum we usually call signals that are not clear on westbound moves. The tailhose person is in charge of the brakes and has a better view than the engineer because the train is being shoved backwards.
Here on CN, crews do not call signals at all. They are still required to communicate them between themselves in the cab, but not on the radio. The RTC’s (a.k.a. train dispatchers) are pretty good about giving crews a heads up on meeting locations and which trains they will be meeting.
Prior to the fall of Conrail, this practice was not in the rule book. But, NS andCSX both require this at absolute signals and interlockings. There are exceptions, such as dwarf signals or advance signals.
I can’t speak for CSX, but here on CN we have System Special instructions (SSI Rule 314(OCS) and 577(CTC) and we are required to call the approach signals to a controlled location(in CTC).
"Within single track CTC or in multitrack CTC where specified in special instructions , a member of the crew on passenger and cabooseless trains must broadcast over the designated end to end stand by channel the name of the signal displayed on the advance signal to the next controlled location or interlocking.
Examples:
‘CN 303, Clear to Floods’
and
‘CN 303, Clear at Floods’"
The controlled location is usually the signal leaving a siding or block.
In OCS(Occupancy Control System, similar to the Track Warrant System) there are similar special instructions.
A member of the crew on all trains must initiate a radio broadcast on the standby channel 1 to 3 miles from the next station or interlocking.
For example:
“CN 574 1 mile to Squamish”
In OCS any requirement to protect against another train or foreman must be included in the broadcast.
IE. “CN 574 1 mile to Brunswick, portect against Foreman ______ between mile 15 and 16”
Here in Central GA, calling signals on CSX is left up to the divisional trainmasters. Some lines require calling out the signal once, and some require calling it out twice. (but they DO call them out no matter what) They are required to give out the train #, MP/control point location, and engine number. (ex. “CSXT Q549,…clear signal at the north end of Cordele…engine UP 3915 out.”)
Calling signals out on the radio is done primarily as a safety precaution to prevent collisions due to faulty signal indications. This has prevented more than one head/rear end collision from taking place around here when the radio transmission of a false indication is picked up by an opposing train or the dispatcher. Appropriate action can then be taken to avoid a mishap.
not forgetting near tragaties with MOW personal that are in the wrong place at the wrong time… befor i hired out there is a story of a MOW person in a high rail that set on too soon… becouse the crew was calling signals…he heard the train apporching behind him and was able to get out of the high rail in time… the train did destory the truck…but the MOW worker lived…if not for the calling of the signals… he might not have enought time to get clear befor they hit…
csx engineer
On FEC, our locos are equipped with cab signals that work in conjunction with wayside signals from South Jacksonville (Sunbeam) to North Miami which doesn’t require calling signals. CSX and NS, both run on our mainline between downtown Jax to Bowden Yard (about 7 miles) which is automatic block and they DO call signals.
Dave(ECH)
NS is good at calling all their block signals whether on single(main) track or double track here on the CNOTP. Even if they are going thru the Danville Yard, they will call a signal on the North/South Mains for example:
not sure about the freights, but Amtrak does call them when they are against there movement on the main!!! this comes from the Amtrak crews running on the BNSF in Washington and they dont change just because they are in Oregon!!!
We first noted the signals being called in the Martinsburg, W. Va. area shortly after a head on collision at Orleans Road W.Va. (between Martinsburg and Cumberland Md.) A young female engineer named Barbara Jean Hopkins was killed when her westbound train met an east bound train which was on the wrong track. This happened February 12, 1980 and she was the first female engineer killed in the line of duty on the B&O. Within a month to month and a half, we started hearing the signals called. Not sure if this was a result of that wreck, attempting to alert others as to where trains were (at that time there were still cabooses and they answered the callings. Hopefully the calling would turn up someone getting close on the wrong track in time to stop).
Just food for thought… Jeff Hollis, Martinsburg, W. Va. (author-East End)
Calling signals (or in this case, an engineer NOT calling signals) prevented an accident in Syracuse. IIRC, the freight crew knew they should be hearing signals called and weren’t. They stopped, and actually bailed off their train. The (now former) Amtrak engineer eventually became aware and stopped his train before a collision occurred.