I saw it, I just haven’t ordered them yet. It’s one the to-do list after my 3 Kato C425s are finished.
I saw it, I just haven’t ordered them yet. It’s one the to-do list after my 3 Kato C425s are finished.
I saw it, I just haven’t ordered them yet. It’s one the to-do list after my 3 Kato C425s are finished.
Autobus: You’re entirely right. I’ve had two instances where the existing open-frame motor could not be replaced with a can without a complete re-building and re-gearing of the locomotive, (two PFM Rio Grande 2-8-8-2’s) and I did exactly what you suggested. The result was a like-new open-frame motor that is NOT a voltage hog and runs smoothly and quietly. So yes, there ARE alternatives.
And the rest of you: Thanks for opening my eyes about the quality of some of the lesser expensive motors out there. I know about the Canons–I have several that came installed in my locomotives and have been superior runners–but I will admit that I did NOT know about other types. My apologies for sounding ‘elitist’. In fact, I think I might try a few on a couple of my more ‘underpowered’ Sagami-driven locomotives.
Tom [:)]
There are several other brands that are less money, but not really similar in performance and value for repowering older brass. NWSL are a proven product and and worth the money. I have many older brass pieces and all of those are worth the best motor I can buy. You might consider buying even sooner since the line has been sold and the new prices will probably not be less.
Some of the older brass when tuned up and remotored will surprise you. I still don’t use the old brass with sound since picking up power with one side of the locomotive and one side of the tender is not state of the art in sound today. I know many do it, but sound needs to stay in contact at all times to work well.
We all spend money on enjoyment and you will enjoy the running qualities of a good brass model much better with the proper motor installed.
CZ
I would like to know what the min RPM people use. I try to go with the highest RPM I can get with lower gearing to make the engine a smooth runner… What about the rest of you? Since we are on it. Anybody have any input on the NWSL gear boxes vs the Precision scale?
Sam
L:
6000 rpm is a very good starting point. For example, with 26:1 single-stage worm gearing (like Mantua used with PM-1s), it will drive a 60" driver loco 40 SMPH at 12v…possibly a little slow, really. 18:1 gearing would give about 60 SMPH.
6000 / 26 * (PI * 5) * 60 / 5280 = ~41 SMPH
In real life, the speed would likely be lower, as installed in the loco, versus running truly unloaded on a test stand. There is always some load: driveline friction; the load of hauling the loco around. These will cut speed. Usually some experimentation is helpful.
For example, Bud’s table credits a PM-1 with a 18,400 RPM no-load speed at 12v, 15,400 RPM when equipped with a NdFeB magnet. When performing my own overhaul and NdFeB upgrade, I found that my Mantua 0-6-0 went 60 SMPH at 12v with the stock 26:1 gearing, which shows that my PM-1 was turning about 10,000 RPM. Unfortunately, I’m not equipped with a test bench, so I can’t compare apples to apples.
There is a trade-off to consider about motor speed. You can, of course, get the same loco speed and power with a fast, lower-torque motor, geared down, or a slower, more torquey motor, and a higher gear ratio (closer to 1:1). At high speeds, you accentuate any flywheel effect from the motor or accessory flywheels…momentum is proportionate to velocity, squared. However, you also have more potential problems with motor and gear noise. Also remember that smaller locos demand smaller motors, and smaller motors generally need to run faster than larger ones. However, the 5000-10000 rpm range is a good place to start your experiments.
You can’t beat experimentat
The NWSL catalog has an RPM/gear ratio chart in it. The catalog was available as a .pdf download a couple of months ago.
RPM for motors depends on what you want. Do you want to run your 4-8-4 at the scale 80 MPH was capable of? If so, you don’t want a 37:1 gear reduction. Or, are you OK with the max speed of that model 4-8-4 being 45 scale MPH (where the prototype probably spent a lot of time), since your layout isn’t that big?
Gear reduction divides RPM and multiplies torque. If you want both high speed and pulling power, you need a bigger motor to provide enough torque with the smaller gear ratio. Bigger motors are generally slower turning, which further reduces the needed gear ratio.
Since the max practical single stage gear reduction in our models is a 37:1 worm drive (and much smaller on models with smaller driving wheels), motors that run faster than 10K RPM generally need a gear reduction in front of the worm. These are typically spur gears (between 2:1 and 4:1), which are noisy at high RPMs - listen to a gearhead motor on a full 12 volts. Model Shays and other geared lokies usually have this noise issue because of the very slow speeds desired and very small space for the motor. For this reason, I have heard of some folks using very small 24 volt mo