CANADIAN PASSENGER RAILROADS - Let's talk! BYOB ........

I love the CPR’s Canadian in the days before action red, not that I don’t like action red. When VIA took over, that was the low point. It is better now because it is back to the all Budd consist(Is there some change that I don’t know about?) Remember when it was powered by both FP9s and F40s, and there was CP and CN equipment? that was ugly. I like the all Budd consists, but the refurbished CPR Heavyweights wern’t bad, either. Now if we could get it back on CPR tracks past my house, ALMOST all would be right in the world.(HAH! not by a long shot)
Trainboy

The CN train in the late 1960’s early 1970’s was a pretty good train as well. The CN SUPER CONTINENTAL featured a full length dome former Milwaukee Road a 48 seat dining car and even had an observationb car unfortunately it was a remodeled Fort series streamlined and operated mid train next to the diner reserved for the sleeping car passengers. The CN train at the time provided nightly Bingo games in the diner open to all passengers and the prizes were combs CN playing cards and breakfasts in the diner. The CN train was clean and comfortable while rival CP CANADIAN cars were becoming threadbare and beginning to show their age. It wasn’t until Via Rail Canada that the cars were completely refurbished and rebuilt and once again became something to brag about. Sure the Government operated CN at the time but they did a pretty good job of getting passengerrs to ride the trains once again. Those Red White and Blue fares and all of the TV advertising filled most trains I rode at that time, and many ran with extra cars.
CN filled the lounge cars with thirsty patrons as well. Very clever how every table was set with the saltiest pretzels I have ever tasted and they were free. Oh did I mention you probably drank twice as much due to the salty pretzels. Amtrak could learn a lesson from CN on marketing.
CN sleeping cars were built by Pullman and were comfortable and quiet and the red white and Blue fares applied to them as well.
The OCEAN between Montreal and Halifax operated with former Milwaukee Skytop lounge Observations providing an excellent overnight trip to and from the Nova Scotia’s largest city. The SCOTIAN another train between Montreal and Halifax at the time split into two sections eastbound at Truro, Nova Scotian with one section continuing to Halifax and the other continuing to the Sydney where connections were made with the ferries to Newfoundland. Overnight service between Montreal and Toronto was very popular at that time with the CAVALIER often operating as many as twenty cars the major

What was the deal with the red, white and blue fares? It sounds like it should be an American promotion.

Red fares were the most expensive and applied to the busiest travel days. Blue Fares were 1/3 off and were for days not so popular , and the white days were half off for the least popular travel days. That is from memory it may have been just the opposite as I get older my mind plays tricks on me sometimes. One thing the Red White and Blue fares accomplished was it filled trains and the CN purchased many used surplus cars from the US and filled them too.

Thanks. It sounds like a great promotional idea. Amtrak should revive it, it sounds patriotic, it simple to understand and if it fills trains that would otherwise run empty it would also increase revenue.

Thanx to all for your contributions to this topic! I know this is getting a bit repetitive on my part - but reading the overwhelming majority of submissions is everything I hoped we could make of this subject.

I’m nearing my 67th birthday and am somewhat of a late starter as a practicing rail fan. I spent 32 years in the military with very few opportunities to do the things that are now available to me in retirement. We have all been (or still are) there; you know - raising families - working to support them - paying the bills - keeping up with the Jones’ (whoever in they are!!), etc. With all of that way behind me - I can now focus on what’s important in life: my wife - our dog - and of course - TRAINS!

Passengerfan: Your experiences and willingness to share them has simply made my day - so to speak. Just reading about those trips you have taken has given me some pretty vivid pictures of how nice it must have been when CN and CP were rivals and the trains were fast, frequent and full.

Am I correct when I say that the Newfoundland railroad was narrow gauge? Again, in the era I am speaking of (late 1950’s until its demise) I was more of a sailor than rail rider!

For trainboy:

It was just last year that I was engaged in conversation with some people in Canada who were convinced that VIA Rail was in fact going to get back to the CP tracks.

However, Ottawa may have changed all of that with the budget games that seemingly never end -either in your country or ours. (Enough: our "ground rules prohibit political stuff!!) - My apologies!!

Anyway, I too prefer the CP’s maroon and grey with the beaver shield - looks great! As a matter of fact I have a 9 car consist of them in one of my wall mounted display cases - all Budd stainless steel powered by EMD E-8’s "A

I had many wonderful experiences riding passenger trains in Canada. I did ride the CP Canadian, about 1969, but only from Brandon to Winnepeg in a coach, about the least scenic portion of the line. Was returnomg from a business visit to Brandon, returning to the Chicago area with the Winnepeg Lmtd to St, Paul, Morning Hiawatha to Milwaukee, and the Afternooon Hiawatha to Glenside, later taxi to O’Hare to pick up my car. Same year rode the Newfy Bullet in an upper birth both ways, and our group had a business car on the rear with limited available access to the observation platform. The Ocean both ways to North Sidney in a roomette was fine, also, ditto the International from Chicago to Tornoto. Once connected to the Ocean by riding the mixed train from Charlottetown, PEI to Moncton, with postwar lightweight coach, freight cars, and GP-7 or GP-9 all on the car ferry, the loco on the middle track, of course, and lunch served upstairs in the ferry’s diningroom.

Newfoundland Railway was 3’ 6" and when built they paid the builder by the mile that is why the route between St. Johns and Port Aux Basques was so long.
Imentioned earlier about the crew layover in Argentia it was actually Argentia Junction where the main line and branch line split to Argentia.
I found the entire Island to be a great place to visit. Lots to see such as Gander airport, The hill in St. Johns where Marconi sent his first trans Atlantic transmission. On the other side of the Island theiir was a U S airforce base a Stephenville.
The Port Aux Basques shops were interesting as the ferries that brought railroad cars to the Island were equipped with standard guage tracks and they had to be changed to narrow gauge before leaving the port. Their was a long building where the standard gauge cars entered and their trucks were changed out to narrow gauge for their time on the Island. The trucks were stored in the building and the same trucks were returned to that particular car before the ferry ride back to the mainland.

DaveKlepper

Hey Dave - learned something new. I had no idea that CN ran the “Ocean Limited” to North Sydney, Cape Breton, Nova Scotia. Do you recall the years - approximate will do. From what I recall (but not by first hand account - rather from what I’ve heard from friends in Sydney) they used to connect at Truro, Nova Scotia for the westbound “Ocean Limited” or other trans. Anyway, perhaps it was a through car service you experienced on what I believe was a three per day schedule between Halifax and Sydney/N. Sydney.

Anyone “out there” know for sure?

THE BRAS D’OR EXCURSION TRAIN:

In 2000, my wife and I traveled VIA Rail’s Bras d’Or between Halifax and Sydney. This first class excursion train was in its inaugural year and turned out to be a very enjoyable trip for the 17 - yes 17 - paying passengers on that August sunny day. The consist was made up of a baggage car - coach - Skyline dome and Park Car observation dome. Food service at your seat - and it was excellent. On board entertainment was also provided - story tellers, dancers, etc. Really quite an experience, but a rather long day - 12 hours I believe from boarding to arrival.

That train was supposedly going to be a two year experiment to ascertain interest in marketing a new venture of VIA Rail and Cape Breton business groups in bringing more tourism to Sydney. The two years have elapsed and the train ran last season - May through October.

There never really was an attempt to revitalize regularly scheduled passenger service between Halifax and Sydney, as many in Sydney had falsely believed. To this day - some friends of mine who are in business - are dearly disappointed in the absence of a viable method of travel between where they are and the rest of the world. If you have ever spent time in that area - it is both a wonderfu

My Newfoundland vacation was in 1968 the last year the narrow gauge ran. CN operated three Maritime trains from Montreal at that time The OCEAN between Montreal and Halifax the CHALEUR between Montreal and Gaspe and the SCOTIAN between Montreal and Truro where it split into two trains one going to N. Sydney and Sydney and the other continuing on to Halifax. Besides these the CPR operated the ATLANTIC LIMITED between Montreal and St. John, N.B. via Maine.

I assume 1968 is a typo right because didn’t railway service on Newfoundland last until 1988?

My first decade of life nearly coincided with the last decade of the Canadian as a CP passenger train. I have one vivid memory of the Canadian from my childhood. I grew up in the countryside about 1/4 mile from the CN branchline that went south from the CP Rail mainline near Kamloops to Kelowna in BC. At a town called Armstrong it connected with a CPR branchline. The two branchlines and the mainline effectively made a large triangle. Anyway, I could always hear the freight trains coming and I would race down the driveway to the rail tracks to wave or at night I’d fla***he porch light on and off - even at 4:00AM. My family thought I was nuts. Naturally, in at that time the branchline only had freight trains. One day, I heard a train coming but when I had raced out to the tracks imagine my surprise to see a gleaming stainless steel passenger train go rolling by loaded with people, dome cars and all. It was the only time to my knowledge that it ever happened. I suppose the train must have been detoured via the two branch lines due to a derailment on the CPR mainline. I don’t know why since the mainline must have had other derailments and the train was never detoured at other time. Either way, seeing the Canadian on a small branchline like that made an impression I never forgot.

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andrewjonathon

What a great train story - and so vivid too. That’s the kind of “stuff” that the movie, “Polar Express” is made of. Childhood surprises with memories that are everlasting. Thanx for sharing your thoughts with us!!

In 1956 we traveled from New Haven up to Sydney, NS by train. Took the ferry across to Port Aux Basques, Nfld. Then on by train as far as Clarenville. Unfortunately I was young and not yet into trains, and my memories of the trip are about nil. What a waste.

I do have a framed B&W print of the " Newfie Bullet". Does that count?

My only ’ adult’ experience riding trains in Canada came when I was working up in Ft McMurray, Alberta, and had a couple of chances to ride the old “Muskeg Mixed” on the NAR from Ft Mac down to Edmonton. But that’s hardly in the same league as the passenger travel you guys are talking about.

Regards

Ed

egmurphy

Ed - In 1957, I was riding the New Haven between New London, CT and NYC on a regular basis over the weekends. I NEVER knew one could ride from anywhere in Connecticut to Sydney, NS! But, then again - why not??!! Trains were still going virtually everywhere in the U.S. and Canada in those times.

All of my childhood train riding experience were aboard U.S. railroads, so those tales are for another day … but I know what you mean about “waste.”

The Newfy or Newfie Bullet counts for lots - and to have a framed print “double counts.”

Tell us MORE about the Muskeg Mixed - sounds like you have all kinds of stories that surely “qualify” for the intent of this discussion!

Thanx for the contribution and let’s keep it going …

Folks, at siberianmo’s kind invitation in another forum, I would like to join your group.

I am a retired Armed forces officer who took the VIA tain from Ashcroft, BC to Vancouver in late February of 1974. My destination was the reruiting centre!

As I recall, the 300 km trip took some seven and a half hours through the Fraser Canyon. A little basic arithmetic will derive an average speed of about 45 kph, or about 26 mph. I was not impressed, but only because I had driven the same route many times on the highway opposite the railway. That is, the scenery was ‘old hat’.

My most recent trip was a year ago between Ottawa and Toronto…this time in First Class. It was a muuuuuuch better experience, believe me.

I will offer that I like trains in general, with no preference for freight or pax. I really like the hissing, clanking, thrumming, and ground shaking of steam locomotives, and since the only ones that still run are on the ‘tour’ trains, I am very much a supporter of them. For example, once I find out how to do it, I will donate some funds to the refurbishment of the Royal Hudson. I would die a happy soul if I could stand at the side of the road and experience it thunder past at a regulator setting of 50% and cut-off of 35% with 220 lbs of head on it. As Tim the Toolman would growl, “Ooh, oohhh, ooohhh!”

My trips to Newfoundland and PEI were about 1966-1969, and during that period the Ocean split going to both Halifax and North Sidney. I only got to ride the Charlottetown mixed once going from the island, since on my next business trip the passenger service had been replaced by a bus, about 1966 or '67. The bus also used the ferry, which still handled freight cars/

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Must be a good day for Gremlins - for this is the 3rd time I’ve attempted to post a message. Get all the way to the end only to have it disappear when submitted! Hmmmmmm - must be those Canadian freight fans!

DaveKlepper

Dave (and passengerfan) Between the two of you, I’d say you have the market cornered on Canadian passenger rail travel spanning several decades. Keep those memories coming!

What kind of equipment did you travel aboard while on the Charlottetown mxed?

Selector

[quote]
QUOTE: Folks, at siberianmo’s kind invitation in another forum, I would like to join your group.

I am a retired Armed forces officer who took the VIA tain from Ashcroft, BC to Vancouver in late February of 1974. My destination was the reruiting centre!

As I recall, the 300 km trip took some seven and a half hours through the Fraser Canyon. A little basic arithmetic will derive an average speed of about 45 kph, or about 26 mph. I was not impressed, but only because I had driven the same route many times on the highway opposite the railway. That is,

To Siberianmo: You mentioned a while back that Via Rail might be
getting back on CP tracks. I doubt it. Several years ago they
tried to get back but the Canadian govt refused them permissioon.
Gov’t told Via they gave it up years ago and the Rocky Mountaineer is
now operating very profitably on this route & if Via got back then it would
cut into the Rocky Mountaineer’s profit and forother reasons.

Everyone talks about the Canadian . When I worked with Cp many,
many years ago I had a pass from Montreal-Vancouver & took
numerous trips with my wife and kids, The pass was no good
on the Canadian though & had to take the Dominion. The same
route but took about 12 hours slower if I remember correctly.
Equipment was the same except there were a few older cars which
were painted silver trying to match the stainless steel cars.
I’m trying to think back now & I think some of the older cars were
baggage cars and a few coaches.

On the subject of Budd cars (RDC - type) - for information to siberianmo - we have 3 Budd RDC’s at the West Coast Heritage Park in Squamish BC – #14 , #21 and #33 all ex BC Rail - although none are at present operating - we have equipment available to make at least one operational - hopefully by the end of 2005 .

For selector – info re CPR Hudson #2860 - she is waiting for repairs to start - soon - parts are ordered and a plan is underway – you can donate to the Hudson fund from the WCRA website www wcra.org – or send direct to the WCRA at the address on the site – we have about $180.000 promised so far but more is obviously needed.
Also underway at the site is a restroration of the ex CPR car 'Alberta " - to be used on the excursion train when finished