Car Suggestion in Need of a Prototype

Got yet another one for my Froum friends. I am looking to add some cars for traffic going in and out of a sugar beet plant for the 1970s era. I am modeling a yard area and want to model the traffic. I have most of the cars tracked down but the one that’s giving me problems in finding a Chlorine car. (Tank cars are not in my knowledge base.) One of the suggested cars is the Atlas 17,360 gallon Chlorine tank car (https://shop.atlasrr.com/c-464-ho-master-acf-17-360-gallon-tank-car.aspx). The one problem I’m coming up with is that all the cars I’m seeing are all too new for my era. The only decorated one I see that looks possible is https://shop.atlasrr.com/p-54872-ho-17-360-gallon-chlorine-tank-car-gpbx-707.aspx only because of the COTS lablel. All the rest have the 80’s version with the two boxes and the small rectangle underneath. If need be, undecs are still available, but I’d need a prototype to look at to model and the appropriate decal set(s).

As usual, any assistance that can be provided would be most welcomed.

Close to 50 years ago I worked for Wyandotte Chemicals who had a fleet of single dome light green tank cars for chlorine service. They were pretty much a standard tank car for the era and I have one on my rr but it is so old I can’t tell you the manufacturer. I don’t recall any safety devices in that era so a smaller single dome tank car should suffice

Broadway Limited has a number of 6000 gallon tanks cars letter for liquid chlorine. https://www.broadway-limited.com/6000gallontankcar.aspx

gene S.

Somebody needs to advise me what a sugar-beet refinery needs chlorine by the carload for.

Here is a general reference the OP can use regarding the beets:

https://www.haifa-group.com/sites/default/files/article/Sugar-Beet.pdf

I’d be inclined to think that chlorine deliveries into any model-scale beet-sugar refinery would be in the one-ton cans on their side, if not smaller.

For what I have been told, it is used as a disinfectant.

I will have to do some research with those.

Being less than half the capacity of the 17K ACF cars modeled by Atlas and about ~40-50 years old by then, a lot of those would really be pushing the end of their service lives by the eighties, so again you’ll have to do some research on applicable “late” schemes. (Broadway’s site suggests this design was built from the 1920s-40s, so the newest of them would be 30 years old in the seventies - still workable for the 70s, but somewhat obsolete compared to the newer, larger cars.)

There’s also the Atlas 11K tank which lands in the middle ground between these two designs. Some of the paint schemes will be for 40s-50s LPG/propane companies, or anhydrous ammonia, but some of them are for chlorine, just have to sort out the chemical co. cars from the oil & gas co. cars and whether the car is lettered for LPG, AA, or chlorine service.

The current/most recent 17K tanks listed in the Atlas store are all modern paint schemes, but there were other, older schemes that are appropriate as original seventies decorations on older runs, which you might look out for on second hand flea markets/train shows/online sale and swap sites and groups.

http://archive.atlasrr.com/HOFreight/arc-ho173tank.htm

Liquid chlorine isn’t of course. Chlorine is a gas. Sodium hypochlorite is a liquid solution commonly referred to as bleach. You will no doubt have a container in your basement not far from the washing machine.

The really interesting thing about bleach is the fact that it is a very effective disinfectant to which microbes do not develop resistance.

We use it for a general and highly effective disinfectant active against multiple microbes. Sugar production is particularly prone to infection by microbes. Yeast being the most troublesome.

“Liquified” chlorine (gas under pressure).

Two lines of thought that I have come up with:

  1. Can someone show me a prototype pic of one of those 17K cars, preferably in a white or almost white body? I decided to bid on an undec 17K Atlas car and do some decaling/painting. (I can’t seem to find any of the schemes that work for my 70s era at least by looking at the COTS labels and what reporting marks I can read.)

  2. How would an Athearn chemical car compare in size etc to one of the referenced Atlas units? If need be, I can do some kitbashing. And yes I realize the trucks aren’t right but that’s easily fixed. (For those who complain about this idea, look at the comment on the first point.)

Not sure about finding one in white/off-white, you’ll probably end up painting it black…

These are some ACF chlorine tanks like the Atlas model:

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=acfx86226&o=ge_railcar

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=acfx85409&o=ge_railcar (white car, but post-1980s repaint…)

Similar to the 17K model, but a different car builder (so different tank supports and other minor details:

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=gatx50319&o=gatx (1980s repaint though)

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=utlx28256&o=utlx (1980s repaint)

These are similar to the Atlas 11K gallon tank (http://archive.atlasrr.com/HOFreight/arc-ho11ktankcar.htm), and some version of most of these paint schemes have been run by Atlas in the past:

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=cgtx55211&o=cgtx

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=cgtx55220&o=cgtx

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=gatx78415&o=gatx

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=hcpx1078&o

Now the next question: Where would I find the right decal set to make that car? I am not great when it comes to non-Microscale decal companies.

Got yet another question for the group: After doing some further research, does anyone have any more pictures of the ACFX 86117-86227 series from the 70s era as the above link is from that series? I have only found one of that series but the era is too recent.

I have two decal sheets for tank cars, most of which is for cars much too modern for my late '30s layout.

Both sets are from Microscale: MC-5019 and MC-236. There are a couple of items cut from the 236 sheet, but lots of stuff left, including GATX, NATX, ACFX, UTLX, SHPX, RTMX, AND LUCX, plus number jumbles for those roads. I did notice, though, that there are no lube plates (COTS) decals on either sheet.

The MC-5019 sheet is complete (nothing removed from it), with additional data, safety warnings, and other notations…"for emergency call…, etc., etc.

There is enough lettering to do the car that Chris has shown, except for the PENNWALT CHEMICALS lettering (and COTS).

If you’re interested in the decals, all you need to do is find a way to privately send me your mailing address (my “Conversations” feature can accept messages, but I cannot use it to reply).

Also, if you wish, I can photograph the decal sheets so you can see if they’ll be sufficient for your needs.

Wayne

I did a quick check of Microscale’s database and it doesn’t have an MC-236 that I could find. They have an 87-236 (Tank Car - Yellow & Black Lettering - GATX, NATX, UTLX, ACFX, SHPX), 87-1236 (Tank Car Lading stencils, probably needed) or an MC-4236 (ACFX 65’ 33,000 Gallon Tank Cars) but in any event whichever one that set is could be useful.

I have both ACI labels and COTS panels in my large stack of decals, so that’s not a problem.

So, this may be dumb, but do sugar factories actually use chlorine?[:^)]

Sugar is a composition of hydrogen, carbon and oxygen.

Splenda on the other hand is (if memory serves) identical to sugar with one major exception. Some hydrogen is replaced with chlorine, thus making it indigestible, thus the zero calorie deal.

Again, I could be way off my rocker here, but I seem to recall that sugar factories would use things like phosphoric acid and activated carbon, not highly reactive chlorine.

And for disenfecting, I find it more likely they would buy a finished cleaning agent over straight chlorine. Again, could be wrong.

I have two chlorine tank cars from atlas. One is a Dow Canada scheme with bright green upper body, and black lower half. I also have another dark green Dow car lettered for their Pittsburg factory that, again, hauls chlorine. I will use these for my new layout’s paper mill, because this factory uses chlorine to bleach the pulp.

I saw my LHS had at least one of the Dow Canada cars when I was there yesterday. I could put you in touch if you would like. They are an 11,000 gallon car.

You’re right…that was my mistake: the larger sheet is 87-236.

I did get your mailing address, and will send the decals tomorrow.

Wayne

You get the gold star. Not hydrogen by itself, but combined with oxygen as hydroxyl radical, and there are three chlorine substitutions per molecule – from this, you could figure out the number of moles a plant’s production would equal, and that would give a handle on the mass of chlorine needed…

Very close – carbon dioxide, or at least so says this:

http://nsi.gov.in/study-materials/ANSI(ST)-III_Manufacturing-I_05052020.pdf

Look up ‘carbonatation’ for more.

Note that older Indian processes used SO2 as part of decolorizing, which made the result illegal for sale in the United States.

Note also the use of diatomaceous earth for product filtering instead of activated carbon, I suspect because it would be easier to regenerate or cheaper to replace.

I’ve finally started to decal the Atlas car that I have. I have run into more detail questions however. In this picture (http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=acfx86226&o=ge_railcar), I have two

  1. What is the information hiding under the Chlorine plackard on the right hand side of the car?
  2. What is the text just to the right of the ladder on the lower part of the tank?

The text on both is illegible in the photo. I’m trying to get the car as accurate as possible. Thank you for the continued assistance.

The chlorine is used as a disinfectant. Here is a list of the commodities received and shipped from a sugar beet plant

        		 PRODUCTS USED TO PROCESS SUGAR BEETS

                                RCV/      CAR                     HAZMAT 
PRODUCT	        SHIP      TYPE                    NUMBER    PLACARD             USE
Sugar Beets               R         Beet Gondola            
Lime                          R         Covered Hoppers                                                     Remove solids from
                                                                                                                                sugar solution
Calcium Hydroxide   R        Tank                          1910            8 (Corrosive)       Clean sugar mixture
Amonium Bisulfite   R        Tank                           2693            8 (Corrosive)       Disenfectant
  solution
Chlorine                     R        Tank                          1017            2.3 (Poison Gas)  Disinfectant
Sulfer Dioxide           R        Tank                          1833            8 (Corrosive)        Disinfectant
 solution
Sulfer Dioxide           R        Tank                          1079           2.3 (Poison Gas)   Disinfectant, inhibit  
 liquified                                                                                                                  darkening
Sugar Dust            In-House                                                                                    Started for               
                                                                                                                                 crystalization
Isopropyl Alcohol       R      Tank                           1219           3 (Flammable        Aids in crystalization
                                                                                                       Liquid) 
Boxes                          R      Boxcar
Glass Bottles               R