So if you were routing a Chicago-Florida service (I’m thinking Chicago-Atlanta-Jacksonville), would you go via Louisville or Cincinatti?
When Amtrak did run a Chicago-Florida service, it was run mostly on the “South Wind” route via Louisville. I don’t think that any Chicago-Florida service ever ran by way of Cincinnati. The former “Dixie Flyer” route (Chicago-Evansville-Nashville-Atlanta-Jacksonville) might be the only practicable route today.
Both the Southern and the L&N handled through Chicago-Florida service between Cincinnati and Atlanta. Think Royal Palm, New Royal Palm, and Southland, all which carried cars between Chicago, Detroit, and other Midwest points and Florida.
However, there is no good way now to get between Chicago and Cincinnati, as Paul said.
There were brief periods when there were through Chicago-Florida passenger train services via Cincinnati, most occuring before 1920.
The first such operation was the Chicago-St. Augustine Chicago & Florida Special, beginning seasonal operation in January 1901 and utilizing three different routes between Chicago and Cincinnati (Monon-Cincinnati, Hamilton and Dayton, Big Four and Pennsylvania Lines), each route handling the train two days during the week, with no departure on Sundays. South of Cincinnati, the train operated via SR, Plant System and FEC. Starting in the 1902 season, the train operated from Cincinnati only with Chicago through cars handled on connecting trains.
PRR’s Southland was originally a through Chicago-Jacksonville train when it started in 1915. This only lasted a few years; due to WW1 cutbacks the train was cut back to operate to and from Cincinnati. The PRR Chicago-Cincinnati portion was reinstated by late 1920, but only as a connecting train and handling through Florida cars to L&N’s Florida train.
A similiar story surrounded SR’s Royal Palm. It began as a through Chicago-Jacksonville train in 1913 via Big Four, but the Chicago-Cincinnati portion was temporarily discontinued during WW1. The Big Four portion was eventually reinstated, but as a Chicago-Cincinnati connecting train, handling through Florida cars for SR
Let’s not overlook the IC/CG City of Miami.
The City of Miami was a very good operation until Amtrak but of the three Chicago-Miami routes, IC’s had the lightest intermediate business. That’s why Amtrak did not choose the IC route.
I think its safe to say that IC knew what they had in terms of the their route. That’s why The Seminole became the workhorse (handling local and express traffic) while other trains, such as the City of Miami and Floridan, were advertised and operated as glamour runs.
What about the Cardinal route between those two cities?
As much as this poster would like and thinks the US needs CHI - ATL - Florida it will not happen for many years. CHI - ATL probably needs to go either Cincinnati ( not likely until CHI portion improved although as a branch train off the Cardinal it might be possible. From Cincinnati either CSX ( station problems in Knoxville ) or NS ( station problems in Chatanooga lots of back tracking ) would get big push back from either RR. CHI - Louisville - Nashville - Chatanooga has much slow running.
Then there is the 800 pound bear of an adequate Atlant station as NS would not allow another train at the terrible ATL station location. One proposal for new ATL station ( distant future ) would also have a lot of back tracking. Once south of ATL probably a route can be found.
Instead shorter term ( relative ) solution might be extending the City of New Orleans to Florida. Fewest new route miles and schedule would be somewhat faster that ATL at present. Departures / arrivals of present CNO trains at NOL need changing as Crescent probably locked in ( ATL needs ). Sunset arrrivals / departures ? ? That gives a round about way for ATL / Birmingham - Florida and if there are late train(s) can take thruway from Tuscaloosa or Hattisburgh.
Again lack of equipment now is a big fence to climb over. Would like to see pre Amtrak traffic <> Florida for all CHI - Florida routes compared to east coast Florida. That way some prediction taking present Florida traffic might predict how much demand for this service.
That’s a “good way?” The way I see it as being “good” is that it is the only way. More than thirty years ago, both the PRR and NYC routes were already broken, and the Monon’s line into Indianapolis was gone, also. The route of the Cardinal is the only possible one, and it is slow.
Used to live near the Louisville to Nashville CSX main (in Elizabethtown, KY). South of Louisville it was heavily congested. Between South Louisville and Elizabethtown there was some steep grades and sharp curves and generally around Elizabethtown the line was prone to more than one derailment in the 2 years I lived there. Trains would sit in the Elizabethtown siding sometimes for 7-8 hours at a crack waiting to move…pretty sure Amtrak can cross that line off any future routing if the line capacity is still as strained as it used to be…which was back in 1994-1995.
Also, from the route above. Why not just build a connector from Dothan to the CSX New Orleans to Jacksonville, FL line. Why curve all the way back up to SE Georgia?
Also, would be faster to route via Indianapolis now as CSX is heavily upgrading the Indianapolis and Louisville (ex-PRR) line for faster speeds and Indianapolis would bring in more riders, IMO.
The biggest prize between Chicago and Atlanta is Nashville, and any route thru the area should include it.
Cannot miss Indy and Louisville.
The removal of multiple PC lines and the C&O has killed Indiana routes SE out of Chicago. Hoosier states almost never rail banks or slows abandonment proceedings.
Pulled up in 1987 or do by a gleeful CSX.
I can think of several ways to get from the Midwest to Florida. There is NO reasonable way today.
One suggestion would be Chicago, Indianapolis, Louisville, Nashville, and then either via Atlanta or Birmingham and on to Florida.
Another idea would be from St. Louis, which could be a continuation of a train from Chicago, through either Memphis or Nashville (or both), and on south. If there were a train running from Nashville to Atlanta, then this one could go via Birmingham. Traffic from the Kansas City area could also be tied in with St. Louis service.
As it exists today, “There just isn’t any way to get there from here.”
Indianapolis,Louisville,Nashville to Atlanta
The best Chicago to Florida route that you could reasonably expect any kind of performance on existing routes would be Chicago - Pittsburgh - DC - FL. (hmmmm)
Now, if you were going to play connect the dots with new ROW, then Chicago, Indy, Louisville, Nashville, Atlanta, FL starts to make sense.
Okay, and we’ve already got that, with connections.
Time to restore the Perry cut-off, developed by the ACL to save mileage by heading south from Thomasville and avoiding Jacksonville altogether.
If you’re a reader of Model Railroader you’ll remember the marvelous layout John Armstrong designed in the 1990’s based on the Perry cut-off. See also https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1755&dat=19281205&id=bOAcAAAAIBAJ&sjid=HWQEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6652,1292731&hl=en
The track is gone but the right of way exists.
Ed Schroeder, Member Big Bend Model Railroad Association, Tallahassee, FL; former member and one time president, Gulf Wind Chaper, National Railway Historical Society. Tallahassee, FL