Ah, you are right, there is no way that trains coming from the south could access the air line directly BUT…
BNSF Metra Trains come from the west, not south, hence they can access the air line directly.
Any trains coming from the south (Heritage Corridor or SWS) can take the CN track going northeast at Alton Junction (there is already a connector in place, hard to see on sat photos though cause the “L” line runs on top of it on a flyover), and then a connector could very easily be built from those CN tracks to the RI District. Way cheaper than the 75th street plan, and actually that way you could run SWS into LaSalle very easily instead of having to do BNSF (I don’t know why I didn’t think of that earlier…)
But yeah, I guess it all depends on Daley’s south loop plans. Does anyone have an actual schematic of what he wants to built there and how far south it extends? I know for a fact he wants to get rid of the air line east of 16th street junction, but does he also want to build south on the land where the air line currently sits west of 16th street junction? That is the question…
And on top of all that, ok, so let’s say the air line is abandoned east of 16th street junction. OK, Daley gets his urban elevated walkway, or whatever he wants. Regarding the portions west of 16th street junction, cant you just build over them? Chicago has QUITE the history of using air rights to construct over railroads… I don’t see why it can’t be done again and there is a more practical solution for all.
And Richhotrain said: " There are 8 access tracks to the current LaSalle Street Station which, incidentally, is elevated from ground level".
A. Could some one please clarify 8 platforms or 8 tracks; that can be a great difference? Also are there buildings just east and west outside of the present platform/track boundaries?
B. Could the throat of the station be placed farther south to lengthen the platforms?
C. Of course the platform area could be double decked for additional tracks? Any work such as this needs to have Congress street access added from the platforms and overpasses of the CTA northward. I had forgotten about those problems.
D. Now we have the rest of the story;— Mayor Daley has a condo around the proposed ROWs there.
E. If we really want to get Daley upset propose that METRA electric and South Shore run some trains on the Air Line to a doubledecked LaSalle? To throw him a bone the Air Line could be elevated to the LaSalle throat.
F. Now I remember the north bascule bridge being permanently in the up position. That part of the line could certainly be upgraded from 10 MPH to at leaast the speed of the connector from the Air Line to the station throat.
G. The flyover at the west end of the Air Line is needed to move e
B) No - Daley’s Condo Plans Won’t allow it - in fact, the throat is already boxed in side-to-side with condos for a few thousand feet, plus that would disrupt it being the closest station to downtown.
C) Double Decking could technically be possible
G) Still not convinced of a need for a flyover, there are almost no freights that use the air line, and every passenger train going over the air line would be one less train going to CHI US… and by eastbound scoots do you mean Metra locals? Because while I can’t say freight never uses the airline, I can say that it is an extremely extremely rare occurrence that it does… the only tracks west of there are UP and BNSF and neither of them interchanges with the CN at the airline… and well since the EJ&E acquisition the C&N altenheim sub is pretty much dead, but the east end of it has been out of service since 2002 and even the original CREATE plan did not have the CN using the airline…
Folks, take some time and think about why people live where. As a part time commuter back in the 90’s, I had access to both the IC and Rock out of Blue Island, a rare instance in most communities. While it did not influence my job choices, it did open up various venues after work. I quiet enjoyed going to Burghoffs before heading home on the IC, something I would not have done if I road the Rock or BN.
This gets to my point. For years, people migrated to areas where commuter service took them to their jobs. One would not move to New Lenox, and work close to Union Station. Just as one would not move to Naperville when he worked at the CBOT. When people watching downtown to kill time, I did not see many commuters getting off of buses and entering Randolph or LaSalle. Yes, there were some, and it was summer. Saw a few cabs too. But nothing in volume.
Back to my point. People who have worked for years near one station, would not like their trains going to a different part of town requiring further commuting. For example, if I lived in Manhattan, I would be quite upset if I had to walk 5 extra blocks to Sears Tower.
Thus it has always been. Distinct groups moved to suburbs where their jobs could be easily accessed by train. Lines like the Wabash, actually expanded suburbs as service expanded, hence my example of Manhattan which has seen a boom. In other words, people have shaped their lives over the commute.
While I am all for the CREATE program, the suggestion of moving people from one station to another en mass is FOLLY, especially in the case of BN.
What really makes me upset is the houses and park they will have to bulldoze to make the 75th St. junction happen. Sure, it’s in the ghetto but still those are people who have homes and communities and are just as attached to them as you or I to ours. I could understand if there was absolutely no other alternative but in this case there are definitely other alternatives… it just doesn’t reflect well on railroading.
And Richhotrain said: " There are 8 access tracks to the current LaSalle Street Station which, incidentally, is elevated from ground level".
A. Could some one please clarify 8 platforms or 8 tracks; that can be a great difference? Also are there buildings just east and west outside of the present platform/track boundaries?
B. Could the throat of the station be placed farther south to lengthen the platforms?
C. Of course the platform area could be double decked for additional tracks? Any work such as this needs to have Congress street access added from the platforms and overpasses of the CTA northward. I had forgotten about those problems.
D. Now we have the rest of the story;— Mayor Daley has a condo around the proposed ROWs there.
E. If we really want to get Daley upset propose that METRA electric and South Shore run some trains on the Air Line to a doubledecked LaSalle? To throw him a bone the Air Line could be elevated to the LaSalle throat.
F. Now I remember the north bascule bridge being permanently in the up position. That part of the line could certainly be upgraded from 10 MPH to at leaast the speed of the connector from the Air Line to the station throat.
Folks, take some time and think about why people live where. As a part time commuter back in the 90’s, I had access to both the IC and Rock out of Blue Island, a rare instance in most communities. While it did not influence my job choices, it did open up various venues after work. I quiet enjoyed going to Burghoffs before heading home on the IC, something I would not have done if I road the Rock or BN.
This gets to my point. For years, people migrated to areas where commuter service took them to their jobs. One would not move to New Lenox, and work close to Union Station. Just as one would not move to Naperville when he worked at the CBOT. When people watching downtown to kill time, I did not see many commuters getting off of buses and entering Randolph or LaSalle. Yes, there were some, and it was summer. Saw a few cabs too. But nothing in volume.
Back to my point. People who have worked for years near one station, would not like their trains going to a different part of town requiring further commuting. For example, if I lived in Manhattan, I would be quite upset if I had to walk 5 extra blocks to Sears Tower.
Thus it has always been. Distinct groups moved to suburbs where their jobs could be easily accessed by train. Lines like the Wabash, actually expanded suburbs as service expanded, hence my example of Manhattan which has seen a boom. In other words, people have shaped their lives over the commute.
While I am all for the CREATE program, the suggestion of moving people from one station to another en mass is FOLLY, especially in the case of BN. One hopes that Metra looked a
It has been done for years, in the name of progress. And in this case, anyone involved would welcome it. If you walked into the homes there and dangled money or a new home at them, they would snatch it in a heartbeat. If you don’t believe me, take a walk out there some day along Parnell or Normal from 74th Street.
I am quite sure the planners involved in CREATE, have taken due diligence in looking at the alternatives. Social and financial impacts. And we are not talking R.J. Daley’s bulldozing of the west side for the Eisenhower expressway in the name of urban renewal. Personally, I think it would have very little effect upon Hamilton Park.
I cannot say for sure how many tracks LaSalle Street Station had at the height of its usage. But, I do have an aerial photo in a book on Chicago passenger stations that shows 10 passenger tracks, pre-1980. Also, in that same photo, there looks to be two additional outermost tracks, one on the east side and one on the west side of the station for a total of 12 tracks. Whether that was the maximum at any one time, i do not know. However, from even older photos of the surrounding buildings, I would venture to say that 12 tracks was the maximum.
I haven’t de-trained at LaSalle Street since 1955. Guess it is not there anymore.
Re #7: if the ‘Chicagoland’ commuters can’t fit on the platforms, they will just have to forego “Supersizing” at McDonalds. Of course, the Grand Canyon Railway may run out of fuel, but tough!
Methinks all the drawbridges in Chicago should be welded shut and excess superstructure sold for scrap… We don’t need barge traffic. Day-sailors can step their masts and go to ‘stink-pot’ mode, if they dare cruise in the foul waters. Bulldoze the houses! It is quicker than Gerrymandering political districts. Dailey knows that, the conniving… “Fighting City Hall” is only a matter of $$$$$$$$$$$$!
I believe that I now have the answers to make an educated guess. You will have to help me here. The outer platforms are wider than the other platforms and may have had tracks outside of these platforms at one time? Even though that may have been the case 8 tracks now or even 10 are not enough to run Rock Island, SW, and just some Burlington route trains to LaSalle. I am having trouble getting the Metra web site to publish an all trains schedule for each of these routes. There is absolutely no way to put all those trains into LaSalle, My idea was if some Burlington trains went to LaSalle and still CHI US there would be an interchange station close to the west end of the Air Line or the closest present BN station. It could be run much like Jamacia station is on the LIRR.
Until or If there is enough passenger demand to overload CUS I see no reason for any Burlington trains to be scheduled to LaSalle.
Here is a link to the article that I mentioned earlier in this discussion. It is an article from Railway Age magazine that discusses the Passenger Express Corridor (PEC) and the 75th Street Corridor Improvement Project:
The article describes the re-routing of the Metra tracks at 75th Street and the proposed flyover to connect with the Metra Rock Island tracks at 76th Street. If you are able to look at a satellite map of the area, there is a park at 76th Street. A flyover at the south end of the park will eliminate the need to condemn any residential housing.
Also, a close reading of the article indirectly addresses the issue of the St. Charles Air Line (SCAL). Part of the larger CREATE Project is to re-route the CN trains that currently rely on SCAL to move west toward Iowa on the old ICG route, via SCAL from the lakefront to the junction west of the Chicago River at 16th Street. When the Englewood Flyover is completed at 63rd and State Street, along with the improvements at Grand Crossing, apparently CN will completely abandon the SCAL route and use the old PRR tracks to follow the route west through Englewood crossing and then turn north to 16th Street, then finally west. This re-routing will result in the complete abandonment of the SCAL, clearing the way for removal of the SCAL and the continuation of urban renewal south of the Loop.
I believe I read there are 30 trains on the Wabash. There are over 90 on BNSF. You could probably divert one express each from Aurora, 59/Naperville, Lisle, and Downers Grove, plus a couple of locals, to La Salle and have people grateful for it. But I doubt it could handle all of them on top of the existing Rock Island trains.Come to think of it, though, I’m not sure how many tracks Metra uses on the south side of CUS in the rush hours, but it can’t be any more than 8 before they bump into Amtrak. They probably have already figured out that moving the 30 over to La Salle will balance things nicely. (In fact, moving the 30 out of CUS might be all they need to add more trains on BNSF.)
I have never lived in, or near, Chicago, so I don’t know much about it. One of you denizens/habituates might know: could Central Station, Dearborn Station, &/or Grand Central Station be re-vitalized to handle some of the Union Station overload? Have they all been demolished, or rendered useless for rail operations? I do know that La Salle Street Station is still operational, albeit without its “headhouse” and is a block shorter.
All those stations are long demolished and have been built over with condos and apartments long ago. The only “remant” of these stations are the still open fields where all their yards used to be, which Daley wants to make into condos (the St. Charles Air Line cuts through these fields, that’s why Daley wants to get rid of it). Those stations are not going to come back, and the only way they could expand LaSalle station is by adding a second level. No room to their side, in fact coming into the station for about half a mile you’re in a canyon between condos now…
