So in the May 2010 issue of the magazine, on page 12 article “High Speed Funds granted. Great. Now What?” it says that when the Englewood Flyover is completed Metra SWS trains will use LaSalle St. Station.
How? Is this incorrect? The tracks that SWS uses are the old Wabash main - and this branches off the NS main that intersects the Metra Rock Island District waaay before englewood junction - so it doesn’t make sense.
So is this an error or is there another piece of the puzzle here?
As a long-time rider on the Metra Rock Island line, your question caught my attention. It is true that the Metra SWS trains will switch from Union Station to LaSalle Street Station.
But, to accomplish this, a 3-step process must be completed and the Englewood Flyover is only one of the steps. The so-called “75th Street Corridor Improvement Project” is another step, and that one is crucial to the re-routing of the Metra SWS trains.
You may find the following article interesting:
http://www.rtands.com/newsflash/metra-approves-final-design-for-creates-englewood-flyover.html
Interesting… here’s my big question - so CREATE project P2 - that’s the one they will need to do to physically make the connection to route SWS to LaSalle Station - they are going to have to either lay the tracks right through the middle of a park of bulldoze houses to make it happen - they are planning on doing that?
In fact, would it make much more sense to move the BNSF Metra Trains to LaSalle Station? It just seems to me that building a connector to the St. Charles air line at 16th street junction would be waaaay cheaper than CREATE project P2 (especially considering that a grade for that connector is already in place, just no tracks)?
Also, after the connection at Grand Crossing is completed, does the St. Charles Air line and CN tracks north of Grand crossing have any future? Or is it abandonment for them?
If you want to view a map to see how these projects link up, click on the following link, then look for the link on the web site that reads “CREATE Projects With Passenger Benefits” and click on that:
I would have to study the plan a little closer to locate the link up but I believe that it will be around 75th Street so that the SWS will be on the Rock Island tracks as they go through the Englewood Flyover and then make their way into LaSalle Street Station.
As far as the SCAL goes, that is so little used already that for all practical purposes it already is useless.
Actually, it is all very sad in that at one time years ago, the Englewood crossing was a super busy interlock for the PRR, NYC, and a whole bunch of other roads. And, the SCAL, and the 16th Street interlock, combined with the C&WI tracks crossing under the Rock Island tracks on the way to Dearborn Station made for some pretty exciting train watching.
Here is a link to the Englewood Flyover diagram:
www.createprogram.org/…/P1%20CREATE%20Project%20Fact%20Sheet%20FINAL.pdf
Still trying to find one for the Metra SWS connection to the Rock Island tracks which I believe is going to be a flyover as well at 75th Street.
Yeah I can’t find a diagram for the 75th street connection either… but if you look at it on Google Earth you will see how there is absolutely no way that a connector could be built without either going through a park of bulldozing houses… so I still maintain that the St. Charles Air Line and routing BNSF to LaSalle station would be better. Sure, the SCAL is rarely used (except for Amtrak), but so what? That’s a good thing, it won’t create traffic conflicts. And it would definitely be much cheaper to build a connector at 16th st junction than it will be at 75 street.
I’ve attached two links to satellite photos (click on them):
16th Street Junction
75th Street Junction
On the 16th street picture, in the bottom right you will see a white line where the connector between the RI district and SCAL would go. There is already a grade there as once upon a time it was connected, and still is connected in the southwest quadrant.
On the 75th street picture, the RI District is the line on the right going up and down on a diagonal, and SWS uses the old wabash main which goes left out of the picture. Current SWS uses NS trackage and takes right turn at the junction to go to the old Wabash Main. The white line is where a connector would have to go - I drew it straight through the park. I guess it could also go south of the park if you bulldozed houses.
That’s why I don’t understand why they don’t reroute BNSF to LaSalle St station instead…
I tried above link twice, did not compute. Easy enough to find the information. Go to createprogram.org on the right hand margin, there is a link for the entire CREATE project map. If you have the lastest Adobe reader, it will spawn a new window. Then back at the home page, there is a link to the P1 Englewood project, click and read that. Between the two, you should understand the routing for the Wabash commuter service into LaSalle.
As for the St. Charles Air Line, Mayor Daley wants that land.
I believe Daley wants the portion of the St. Charles Air Line east of the 16th street junction, a BNSF connector would only require the land west of the junction.
Another idea would be to also re-route the Metra Heritage Corridor Trains to Lasalle Station - that could also be pretty easily accomplished by building a connector at 16th St. Junction.
Yeah, a little while after reading your initial post, I realized why you voiced concern about the housing issue. Ironically, it was only a few years ago that a whole series of new homes were built on the east side of the tracks and just west of the Rock Island tracks right there around 75th Street.
Sorry about that. I would resubmit the link, but as you say, if you click on www.createprogram.org, that is the main link that provides its own links to the various projects.
Since I have not been to LaSalle for decades I need some memory refreshment on its set ups. I do find the idea of some or all the BNSF Metra trains going to LaSalle with having some merit and diadvantages.
1. Isn’t it adjaecent to the Loop lines where you just walk out of the station?
2. What is the condition of the station interior for much heavier use?.
3. How many RI train sets lay over daytime at the station now?
4. Are the layover tracks that once were just south of the station still there or can they be restored or replaced?
5.****. How many usable station tracks does LaSalle have now and can any of the not in service tracks be restored? How does the ultimate # of tracks at LaSalle compare to those used at CHI US during rush hours?
6. What are platform lengths at LaSalle compared to US? Can they be lenghtened?. I seem to remember that longer is close to impossible at CHI US? without taking layover space?
7. Are LaSalle platforms wide enough for exiting commuters?
8. Are Union Station layover tracks full during the day?
Now for the big problems.
9. What is the long term condition of the Air Line’s bridge over the Chicago river? Is it near the end of its useful life?
10. Also is the bridge an active draw span?
11. There would be a need to have the air line connect with out any crossovers to all three ( or future 4) main west bound tracks. Is there room at the west end and north and south of the ROW of BNSF and of the airli
I believe that the long-term plan is to build housing and shopping on all of the land south of Roosevelt Road, west of the Rock Island tracks and east of the river, all the way south to 21st Street. Already, the land bordered by Polk on the north, Roosevelt on the south, Rock Island tracks on the east, and the Chicago River on the west is committed to housing and shopping. It’s called Roosevelt Place, or something like that. In any event, that’s why Daley wants SCAL removed. It cuts like a knife right through the center of planned development.
Interestingly, the land between Roosevelt Road and 16th Street is actually landfill used to straighten the old bend on the south branch of the Chicago River in 1930. For 40 years, the landfill supported rail yards, then all was abandoned for another 40 years.
[quote user=“blue streak 1”]
Since I have not been to LaSalle for decades I need some memory refreshment on its set ups. I do find the idea of some or all the BNSF Metra trains going to LaSalle with having some merit and diadvantages.
1. Isn’t it adjaecent to the Loop lines where you just walk out of the station?
2. What is the condition of the station interior for much heavier use?.
3. How many RI train sets lay over daytime at the station now?
4. Are the layover tracks that once were just south of the station still there or can they be restored or replaced?
5.****. How many usable station tracks does LaSalle have now and can any of the not in service tracks be restored? How does the ultimate # of tracks at LaSalle compare to those used at CHI US during rush hours?
6. What are platform lengths at LaSalle compared to US? Can they be lenghtened?. I seem to remember that longer is close to impossible at CHI US? without taking layover space?
7. Are LaSalle platforms wide enough for exiting commuters?
8. Are Union Station layover tracks full during the day?
Now for the big problems.
9. What is the long term condition of the Air Line’s bridge over the Chicago river? Is it near the end of its useful life?
10. Also is the bridge an active draw span?
11. There would be a need to have the air line connect with out any crossovers to all three ( or future 4) main west bound tracks. Is there room at the west end and north and south o
[quote user=“blue streak 1”]
Since I have not been to LaSalle for decades I need some memory refreshment on its set ups. I do find the idea of some or all the BNSF Metra trains going to LaSalle with having some merit and diadvantages.
1. Isn’t it adjaecent to the Loop lines where you just walk out of the station?
2. What is the condition of the station interior for much heavier use?.
3. How many RI train sets lay over daytime at the station now?
4. Are the layover tracks that once were just south of the station still there or can they be restored or replaced?
5.****. How many usable station tracks does LaSalle have now and can any of the not in service tracks be restored? How does the ultimate # of tracks at LaSalle compare to those used at CHI US during rush hours?
6. What are platform lengths at LaSalle compared to US? Can they be lenghtened?. I seem to remember that longer is close to impossible at CHI US? without taking layover space?
7. Are LaSalle platforms wide enough for exiting commuters?
8. Are Union Station layover tracks full during the day?
Now for the big problems.
9. What is the long term condition of the Air Line’s bridge over the Chicago river? Is it near the end of its useful life?
10. Also is the bridge an active draw span?
11. There would be a need to have the air line connect with out any crossovers to all three ( or future 4) main west bound tracks. Is there room at the west end and north and south o
Of course none of us have ever done that hitting the wrong button. Station quite different from what i recall. Now remember people speaking of predestrian restrictions getting in and out of the station.
Sounds as if there are not enough tracks anyway and that would be a fatal flaw. Anyone know how many tracks LaSalle had at its height?
I’m going to start a new list of rebuttals:
As far as the crowd control problems go at LaSalle St Station, it’s the same at union station - except that you have more ticketing space and space to move around in Union Station, but LaSalle would probably be more convenient to more people because it’s closer to the city center.
Regarding building a connector, it would take up relatively little space. I’m sure Daley would get less heat for that than for ripping up houses or a park near 75th street.
The biggest issue is platform space - even though there are only 8 platforms, how many more trains can they take? If they can’t handle all the Metra BNSF trains… that would be a killer. But then you get another alternative - take the Metra Heritage Corridor Trains to Lasalle St - there are definitely fewer of those than BNSF Trains.
The bascule bridge’s shape is fine. Amtrak uses it 6 times daily (and on rare occasion you will catch a freight there), and yes, it does go up (but very very rarely), so I don’t think that would be an issue. The actual speed on the air line is restricted to 10 mph I think, so ok maybe it takes you 2 minutes more to get to the station but you more than save that 2 minutes in walking distance because LaSalle is closer to downtown than Union Station. And they could always fix the track on the airline and up the speed there too.
Why do you need a flyover? The Air Line already empties into the northernmost of the 3 track BNSF main. All the freights turn south anyways, so that wouldn’t really be too much of a conflict with Metra coming off the air line, and with no more metra trains running into Union Station from the BNSF line you only have Amtrak traffic to contend with going into Union Station which is not that much compared to Metra… so why not just put some switches in?
I love to be vindictive, but I am going to agree with you on all but #2. T
[quote user=“richhotrain”]
I love to be vindictive, but I am going to agree
