I seem to recall that the UP and CNW had been working together for a long time-as far back as when UP was built? I do know that CNW was a major partner in hauling UP trains from Fremont and Omaha on to Chicago. It would seem to me that CNW was not really in a position to ask any other railroad for help. UP, I’m sure would have agreed.[;)]
Big John hopper cars: Something interesting I read, that really hit home- In his book, “Merging Lines”, Richard Saunders explains that the 100-ton-capacity covered hoppers changed the face of the prairie forever. They replaced 40-foot boxcars that could carry barely 25 tons of grain. “The jumbo cars did not necessarily need heavy rail, but they needed good track with…sound…bridges”. This meant that granger branches… would die. >>>“… the co-op elevators,the little towns around them,and the little businesses in those towns would vanish”<<<<<. That pretty much describes 100 little towns within 100 miles of my home. CNW sure had it’s share of branch lines that wilted and vanished,just like the small towns that are vanishing.
C&NW
Wood, Mosher, Witten, Winner, Colome, Dallas, Gregory, Burke, Herrick, St. Charles, Bonsteel, Fairfax, Mission Hill, Volin, Wakonda, Centerville, Hooker, Hurley, Monroe, Canistota, Salem, Unityville, Canova, Vilas, Argonne, Carthage, Esmond, Astoria, Bruce, Estelline, Dempster, Castlewood, Appleby, Gary, Moritz, Altamont, Goodwin, Kratzburg, Kampeska, Henry, Elrod, Clark, Raymond, Doland, Turton, Conde, Verdon, Ferney, Frankfort, Zell, Rockham, Miranda, Faulkton, Burkmere, Seneca, Lebanon, Gettysburg, Gorman, Agar, Broadland, Hitchcock, Crandon, Rudolph, Ordway, Columbia, Houghton
CSPM&O
Valley Springs, Branson, Hartford, Humboldt, Montrose, Spencer, Farmer, Fulton, Riverside
M&SL
Revillo, Strandburg, Troy, Waverly, Florence, Wallace, Bradley, Crocker, Crandell, Adelaide, Stratford, Nahon, Richmond, Wetonka, Leola
Here is you tunnel-
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=11&Z=13&X=1587&Y=11781&W
You’re on the wrong thread![:-,]. If I’m looking at that correctly, the tunnel has been daylighted?
You mean I’ve cross-threaded ?[:)]
The death of a Cowboy.
The Cowboy line of the Chicago and North Western was built by subsidiary Fremont, Elkhorn and Missouri Valley. Beginning in Fremont in 1869 the FE&MV reached Rapid City South Dakota in 1886 and Lander Wyoming in 1906. Plans to connect with the Central Pacific in Ogden were shelved and the Rapid City line stopped at Colony in 1948. During 1944 86 miles from Illco to Shobon were pulled up for the war effort and trackage rights over the CB&Q were used. The last 23 miles from Riverton to Lander were pulled up in 1972. The 1984 system timetable starts with mile 0 in Fremont and the West Point subdivision runs to Norfolk at mile 81.8. The Norfolk subdivision then runs to Long Pine at mile 213.6. Next is the Long Pine sub to Chadron at mile 406.3. Finally is the Casper subdivision to Riverton at mile 724.7. During 1984 the line from Fremont to Norfolk was abandoned and the Fremont, West Point and Pacific took over the first 17 miles. 1988 saw the sale of the Shobon to Riverton section to Bonneville Transloaders. During 1989 another 69 miles from Orin Junction to Casper was removed. The 55 miles from Merriman to Chadron became the Nebkota Railroad during March of 1994 and the Chadron to Crawford section went to DME in 1996. DME also acquired the line through Rapid City to Colony at this time. Union Pacific is operating the section from Crandall to Fisher Junction.
Fremont-
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=13&Z=14&X=443&Y=2867&W
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=72257
Fremont and Elkhorn Valley-
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=35008
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/4184/fevr.html
Norfolk-
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=12&Z=14&X=787&Y=5815&W
Long Pine-
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=11&Z=14&X=1105&Y=11772&W
Merriman-
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=12&Z
UP rerouted much of it’s traffic off the CNW when defered maintainance caught up with the CNW line across Iowa, but I don’t think UP was ever really happy with the Milw connection into Chicago. After the BN merger and the RI fiasco, I suspect it was in UP’s best interest to make the CNW a viable partner, without having to go through the merger process.
BN didn’t want CNW in the PRB, but they feared UP even more. I recall reading about a UP offer to build and operate into the PRB with the CNW getting royalty payments. I think UP’s management was later quoted as saying it was a bluff to help a friend.
The UP or any other railroad does not have traffic to reroute. The person paying the freight routes the traffic. There are no exceptions except for a emergency situation such as a derailment or a flood.
As I mentioned in a response to a speculative question regarding RI+UP, RI had relatively poor terminal facilities and connections in Chicago when compared to C&NW. The same could probably be said for MILW in a C&NW vs. MILW comparison, although it would be a closer call. This may explain why C&NW kept so much overhead traffic from UP even when parts of the Omaha main were deteriorating.
I would venture to say that in today’s environment, a super charged Rock Island mainline from Omaha to Chciago would be superior to the current CNW routing for one reason…
The Rock enters Chicago on the south side and thus would bypass all the congestion of moving solid trains from Proviso to the NS, CSX, or CN connection.
The traffic could avoid the IHB routing thru Chicago.
However, yarded freight would probably be a challenge, as there is nothing on the Rock to match Proviso Yard.
Perhaps someday in the future, if the CNW route gets plugged from too much traffic, probably 10+ years in the future, UP will consider purchasing the Rock line and upgrading to handle thru trains, such as run thrus and coal trains moving around Chicago.
I am not that familiar with the connections with the Rock, but hey, it is only real estate!
ed
Union Pacific took out an option to buy the Iowa Interstate in May 1989 while Japonica Partners launched a hostile takeover bid for the C&NW. UP would have put in double track and CTC and certainly could have built a large yard away from Chicago, much as they have done at Rochelle. Perhaps they would have purchased the EJE east of Joliet and interchanged with NS, CSX and Conrail in Indiana.
The Rochelle webcam would have been at Wyanet.
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=13&Z=16&X=176&Y=2863&W
This is a photograph of a CRI&P train ducking under the BN main.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=86468
It seems I forgot how to use the quote feature[:I]. I was asking bobwilcox what a Market Manager was at CNW.
Thanks
Deja-Vu! Makes you wonder why UP didn’t jump right in and buy CNW at that time?
Since a hostile takeover bid was involved, UP management probably (and wisely) decided not to get involved in a bidding war with Japonica and wind up overpaying for the North Western.
RI had less than ideal connections in Chicago with eastern carriers, except maybe for NS (ex-NKP). It also connected with BRC from east of Clearing, so any unclassified interchange for an Eastern carrier would have to go over Clearing’s hump twice. Anybody who has watched Iowa Interstate’s interchange moves with IHB would appreciate the difficulty of interchange with CSX and NS (ex-NYC).
But the Rock was in an ideal position with respect to run-throughs with Eastern Railroads, better than anyone else.
The only run-throughs with Rock Island and Eastern carriers of which I am familiar are with Erie Lackawanna in Chicago and with Penn Central over the Kankakee Belt.
Each market manager at the C&NW was in charge of a group of commodities. I did chemicals while other people did grain, autos, coal, lumber,food, etc. It was our job to design the services our customers required, set the price for the service and then promote the C&NW’s services to the customers. Most of the time I was doing this prior to the Staggers Act so the pricing part had serious limitations. However, we were able to get block shipments of potash and grain up and running prior to Staggers.
In addition the CNW in the 1970s had three basic strategies. We were to get the comuter service deficits off our back and on to the backs of the taxpayers in NE IL. We were to abandon the 60% of the mileage that only produced 4% of the revenue. We were to build a strong relationship with the UP after the CRIP fiasco when the UP and CNW were at each others throats. All of our market plans had to complement these three strategies.
Can you elaborate on designing the services your customers required? If most was regulated, what could CNW do to differentiate it from other railroads, in order to keep from competing soley on price?
Thanks
I have to agree the UP should have taken over the RI line at C.B. Iowa because it was right there at their own Yard. It would have been a very good connection for the UP.
As for the Cowboy line, What was happening to the Cowboy was happening to the E/W line too. Lack of Maintence was very quickly catching up to the Boone sub. Am I correct or am I wrong.
One quick Question…Just why did the UPRR buy the CNW in the first place?
Allan.
Union Pacific bought the C&NW for the line from Council Bluffs to Chicago. It was competing with ATSF for Chicago-California traffic and with BN for Pacific North West-Chicago traffic and it needed that line to be in top shape. UP was concerned C&NW would let the line degrade. UP had the morgage on the WRPI and would have gotten that one way or another. The rest of the C&NW was not that important to UP.