I was hoping that at least one of you could assist me in something.
I am currently looking at scheduling my High School Freshman classes for next year. I think most of you all know that one day I want to become a Locomotive Engineer. I was wondering if you could tell me your recommendations of classes that would be appealing to the railroads when I go to try to hire on.
I used to have a list that another forum member gave me, but it seems to have gone away.
I believe it is NBC that runs the little snippits called “The More You Know”. Well, at your age that is what you should be concentrating on: learn as much as possible about as many things as possible. After high school, if you are still curious, then go on to junior or community college with an eye to a four year degree. At your age, right now, contrary to acamedicians, you really don’t know what you want to do. Don’t be pushed, don’t push yourself. But really think about what you are doing. Wanna be a railroad engineer? What you take in high school probably doesn’t matter; its more important that you pass with good or better grades and be well rounded, athletic, involved in more than just subjects. A railroad today may even suggest you be a college grad for them to really want to look at you. Oh, you can apply with what you have in hand next year, but that may not be enough or it may be too early. And guess what? If you’re only 16 or 17 now, next year could find you in completely different straits! Good luck.
Justin, in high school it’s probably more about what not to take. Don’t waste time on vocational/technical courses. But do worry about fulfilling your requirements for graduation. You never know when some little snippets of knowledge will come in handy. I just classify freight cars, but I’ve found uses for algebra, trigonometry, history, geography (plenty of that!), general math, chemistry, physics, and English. You may have a foreign-language requirement; don’t exceed it unless you enjoy it. English–you’ll need to understand and repeat all directives received over the radio, and you’ll have plenty of reading to do, and you’ll have to understand why some of the rules are worded so precisely. Don’t give up on band or orchestra if you’re involved in those–those build a lot of camaraderie and other useful attributes
Just do well and enjoy yourself. I hope that some recent graduates like Willy add to this.
My freshman son is downstairs right now doing trigonometry homework. I helped him this weekend and offered this advice…take as much math as possible. I think with the Core40 here in Indiana you must take 4 years of math, but dont skimp on it. You will use it, as Carl said.
Ditto the science. While you are at it, learn to write well. That never goes out of style. See what other electives your school offers.
Are you interested in athletics or band? My son plays basketball and the time management requirements are great. He has to balance quite a bit and learn to use time wisely.
Soak it all in. Find what interests you and if you change your mind (on railroading) you will be like most of the adults. (changing careers).
As others have said, you should really just work toward your graduation requirements. I would think that science and math courses might really come in handy for a job with the railroad, but be careful which courses you take. For example, I suspect that physics would be much more useful than biology. You’ll need to know a lot more about friction, drag, work, and forces than the structure of a cell for your job on the railroad. The same applied to me, since I hope to be a meteorologist one day in the not-so-distant future.
If I recall correctly, this is what my courses Freshman year were:
Algebra I
English I
Spanish I
Theology
Biology
Gym
World Geography
Intro to Journalism
You really don’t have that much choice freshman and sophomore years. Once you get to your junior and senior years, you can start tailoring your classes more toward what you’ll need for your future profession.
Through the rest of my high school career, my math courses were geometry, algebra II/trigonometry, and pre-calculus. And that wasn’t the end of it. Right now, I’m struggling through Calculus II at Creighton University, with Calculus III in my future!
The other science courses that I took were chemistry, physics, and AP physics. Again, I think you’d be better off taking physics rather than something like chemistry or biology.
Also, do the very best you can on your placement exam. Your scores on that will determine where you start in courses like math. For example, you could end up starting with pre-algebra, algebra I, or geo
My advice (in addition to all of the good stuff listed above): STAY OUT OF TROUBLE!! Avoid peer pressure to do dumb stuff (reckless driving, drugs, alcohol, unprotected sex). Think for yourself.
If you get yourself convicted of a felony, your chances for railroad employment are reduced to almost zero. Actually, your chances of getting ANY employment will be minimal at best.
The preceeding posters have each offered you some very sound advice. Math and Science will serve you very well in any endeavor you eventually wind up in. Read and absorb their advice.
Not knowing where you live, I am taking a stab at this, so bear with me. In the Hot-Lanta area you might want to visit these folks, I reacll from living in Fayetteville, they had a very good reputation and it would be a good place to check out, here’s their link: http://www.clayton.edu/
and if you follow this linked section as well, you’ll scroll down to this information for School of Technology:
Program in Railroad Operations
RAILROAD OPERATIONS
(Associate of Applied Science)
The Railroad Operations Program is designed to provide the academic foundation and technical skills and knowledge necessary to acquire technical positions in the railroad industry. The curriculum has been designed in association with the National Railroad Multimedia Training Consortium, which is supported by Norfolk Southern, Burlington Northern, CSX Transportation, CP Rail System, CNNorth American, and Union Pacific.
DWI, public intoxication, any narcotic charge, any felony conviction and any serious civil trouble will find it way into your record, even though you are currently a minor.
Railroads will not hire you with any of those on your record.
Don’t worry about any one single high school class making much of a difference in being hired.
What the carriers are looking for is a well rounded education, physical stamina, basic math and communication skill, and the ability to understand and follow orders.
One of the main reasons they like to hire former military is just that, ex military usually can stand the physical and mental grind, and are used to following orders.
On most roads, you will hire out on the ground as a conductor, work up to engine service, and if you want, into middle management.
If, as right now, no one is hiring for T&E service, you may consider taking a position in the MOW craft, as most of the local union contract will specify that when a training class for T&E starts, the carrier has to accept a craft to craft transfer first, before filling the class with “new hires”
Learn the basics (readin’, writin’, and 'rithmetic), and learn them well. Write a lot, read more.
Learn how to present your thoughts well, both spoken and written. Spelling and pronunciation do count. Learn how to balance a checkbook and make change.
Don’t forget extracurricular activities. They may not weigh as heavily should you work for the railroad, but if you change your focus, they’ll bear fruit for you. Colleges and employers often like to see such activities on your application/resume.
If you stay focused on your schoolwork and extracurricular stuff, you’ll have a lot less time to get in trouble.
One other thing I would add…attempt to be able to communicate in a foreign language. A niece just secured a job with a large pharmacutical company based on her ability to speak French.
Spanish and French could definately come in handy in this continent.
The quality of the foreign language program is important though. I took four years of Spanish during high school. I got excellent grades in it, but I don’t feel that I have a very good grasp of the language. However, I do agree that learning at least the basics of a foreign language isn’t a bad idea.
I have been told by a few railroaders that many railfans who go to work for a railroad quit soon afterwards. I do not think it is a good idea to tailor your whole education to becoming a locomotive engineer. Also, I heard that the average college student changes majors three times. It is probably safe to assume that high school students change their minds even more so. My guess is that very few people what the same career by the time they graduate high school that they wanted when they were freshmen.
The preceding advice has all been very, very good.
In today’s world, Spanish would be the preferred foreign language to know for anyone desiring a railroad career.
Math skills are important too. Being able to keep track of loads, empties, tons, and train length are important - and sometimes you’ll have to estimate those figures as well. And wait until you get into such concepts such as tons per operative brake and tons per equivalent dynamic brake axle - figures that will govern maximum authorized speeds. Division skills will be important there as well.
A knowledge of geography is also important. I used to work with an old head yardmaster who asked me if I thought my best friend would make a good yardmaster. I spoke to the old head about my friend’s attributes and I also mentioned that he practically had the national railroad map memorized. The old head was duly impressed by that little tidbit.
Knowing how to apply the fundamentals of Newtonian mechanics - something you’ll learn in physics classes - will make the train dynamics concepts you need to know as a locomotive engineer easier to learn and understand.
Learning to understand what you read is very important as any “Switch Shanty Lawyer” will tell you. Being able to write declarative sentences that are grammatically correct will take you a long way in the railroad game as well. In high school I was never very good with English fiction, but excelled at grammar - a talent that has served me very well over the years.
The previous posters all have good advice…however for T&E, the railroad really doesn’t care what education you have as long as you have a high school diploma. That’s not to say math, reading, etc, aren’t helpful or essential to the job.
To get hired in Train and Engine service, you need a high school diploma, clean driving record, clean criminal record, clean drug test (BTW the hair test used now, goes back much farther then the tinkle test used when I hired), and be able to pass the company physical.
Now, if you want to advance beyond T&E, a college degree is required for nearly every position.
Think long and hard if you REALLY want to do this. The number of railfans I trained and saw quit within 6 months, far, far, far, far exceeds the number that stayed. Usually, after the phone rings at 3am and they have that first 14 hour day.
First of all learn every thing about the job; both the positive and the negative.All jobs have them regardless of what you are doing.Ask yourself if I am willing to work nights,weekends,holidays. How do you feel about getting up at 2AM in a snowstorm to go to work ? It may sound exciting at 16 but not at 40.
There are interest inventory tests out there to see where your interests are. These tests tell you about yourself and what type of job would be best for your interests.The results may surprise you.
You will need job skills that can make you employable; get a 21ST century education with transferable skills. A lot of school districts are still acting like it is the 1970’s. I hope you don’t live in one of those. You have to be self motivated; do not let yourself flounder in a class you are having trouble with. Get HELP even outside of school. Sadly a lot of teachers will allow you to flounder. You are responsible for your education as much as anyone.
Justin Im going the other way with this, It dont matter to me if you want to be a engineer or a clerk, but you can bet no matter what job you get from flipping burgers to help pay for your car and money for that girlfriend to working for the railroad the main thing you must think of is what your doing now. In other words your work history, your attendance at school how you have handled resposibility ( going to school with good grades and holding down a part time jobs looks good for you later) Now get a education, learn learn and learn you may not need it all to be a engineer but if you want to be super attendant general manager , ( me calling you sir) you need the schooling. I know you have heard this before and its getting old, but remember one thing, if we all didnt care we wouldnt give you the sound advise you have been given,
Just take your time and learn yes it seems like if you just cut through the junk and come on out and work your doing what you want to do. trust us there is plenty of time to go after your dream the world wont end before you get out of school and not a whole lot is going to change in railroading either. enjoy your life because when you sign on to the railroad your life ends, ( freedom) I wouldnt change anything but i am one of the few .
Re: railfans getting a job on the railroad and sticking. I guess I’m one of the lucky ones. I was a railfan from birth, chose the railroad job over a college degree, have a wife who put up with everything, and will be a railfan long after I retire. Part of this was landing the right job in the right place, I suppose.
Wow - that’s quite the compendium of advice. It’s all great - wish I had the benefit of it ‘way back when’ - maybe the best I can do is to ‘ditto’ all of it. But let me add a few more tidbits, and maybe reinforce or corroborate a few points:
On language, which isn’t terribly important by itself but has a couple aspects that tie together: Bob Fryml recommended Spanish. That makes a lot of sense and if I were in your shoes, that’s probably what I’d do. But I’ll be a little bit contrarian here and say that ‘and/ or’ French wouldn’t be wrong either, unless you expect to never do anything north of the border - Quebec, you know. Plus, for some reason the French-based and other northern European rail equipment companies seem to hold their own in global competition - and consider Bombardier, which remains active. About 22 years ago when I was working on the Frazer Maintenance Facility for SEPTA, the Bombardier representative was Richard Lessard, who was fluent in ‘railroad’ and ‘transit’ and in 4 different languages yet - French, English, Spanish, and German - and his speech had accents from all of them. He was a good team builder and leader, too - but then, I believe you’re a Scout also, correct ?
Most engineering schools require at least 1 non-engineering course each semester, to make you a more well-rounded person = less of a ‘geek’. Af
Hi, Justin- I have a high school freshman and senior living in my house… I can preach to you what I preach to them!
The best thing you can do for your education is not to think of it as “job training”. What a proper education will do is enable you to understand the world you live in and be able to make a positive contribution. For this to work, you have to understand where we’ve been (history), how to communicate (language arts) and how the world works (science and math).
On top of this, you have to be able to think. The best way to do this is to push yourself by taking the most rigorous classes you can handle - whatever they may be. Also, be curious about things and see if you can apply what you know to figure out what you don’t know.
Put all this together and you’ll be able to do things. A wise person does good things. Knowing the difference comes from your character.
If you are knowledgeable, wise and of good character, you’ll be able to handle a wide variety of careers and jobs successfully. You’ll also have a broad base on which to build a successful life.
So, don’t be too focused on a career goal when picking HS classes. Be focused on getting a solid overall education.
If, in your senior year, you are still undecided, may I suggest you join the military? They offer wonderful training (choose carefully – only take what you want. The recruiters are quite the salesmen!) and financial incentives. I spent over 33 years in the U. S. Army, attended seven colleges, before earning a degree, and did two stints at the Army Language School/Defense Language Institute. I did say a degree. A degree is something earned, not an entitlement. Most say “my degree”, to which I take umbrage. Other than learning foriegn languages, I learned English! That is the most important think you can learn, methinks! Next, in importance is math, no matter what you plan to do. Sports and ‘basketweaving’ are total trivia. History gets high marks, from me. It might be ‘off-the-wall’, but a course in typing/keyboarding is essential, if not imperative!!! You do have ten fingers, no? Good luck in your chosen career!