Actually in Lincoln’s time it was simply the Hudson River Railroad. South of the 60th St. yard the tracks came down 11th Ave. to 33rd St., curved southeast to 10th Ave. at 30th St. Except for local trains to Spuyten Duyvil, all passenger trains were moved to Grand Central in 1871. Lincoln’s station became the milk depot.
Yes, Henry is right. As he says, the Harlem railroad eventually reached Chatham, going through White Plains, Dover Plains, and Wassaic (the current end of the MTA’s Harlem line). Why go east from Boston and change at Chatham when you can go directly south along the Hudson (unless you are hunting for new route mileage)?
Just to keep things moving late on a Saturday night (I just heard from the other room that it is “live”) lets put this one out since we are on the New York Central tracks in the Hudson and Harlem valleys lets stay with the Commadore’s interests. All three NYC lines out of the Metropolitan area either hauled the trains of another railroad to the junction and one of the three actually had a tenant. What were the three connections whose trains shined the Commadore’s rails and who was the tenant? Oh, the New York, New Haven and Hartford is not one of them.
West Shore…New York Ontario and Western as Tenant. But I forget the name of the junction, just know it is north of Haverstraw.
Hudson…both Albany and Troy as junctions with the Delaware and Hudson, and Troy as junction with the Rutland. The Laurentian, Montreal Limited were D&H trains, the Green Mountain, the Rutland
Hudson…Buffalo as junction with Toronto Hamilton and Buffalo
Harlem…for a very short time, until the New Haven takeover…of the New York and New England RR route through Wilamantic to Boston. Originally this connected with the Putnam line, also a NYC route from the NY Metropolitan area, except that the Manhattan terminal was the 155th Street and Eighth Avenue terminal of the Ninth Avenue Elevatged, and the Putnam line crossed the drawbridge that was later used by the 9th Avenue El’s connection to the Jerome Avenue elevated subway line (now No, 4) in the Yankee Stadium vacinity. Both running via the Harlem and running via the Putnam, the junction was in Brewster, I think.
But then much later there was a through service “via the indland gateway” between Boston and Grand Central Terminal using the NYC’s B&A between Boston and Springfield, the NYNH&H from Springfiled south to the usual Woodlawn junction and the Harlem line into NY. Possibly Amtrak runs a train via this route today, I rode one once about 20 year ago. The equipment was the ex-Roger Williams Budd NH equipment.
I want to give it to you, Dave, but can’t. And not just because I am being parochial in thought by limiting the question to the Hudson/Harlem Valley either. The TH&B train, I believe was a NYC train and not a TH&B train NY to Toronto, so I don’t count
The New Haven was a tenant of the Harlem from MO (Mott Haven Jct.) (5.4 miles above Grand Central) to the Harlem’s station.
It has long been my understanding that the “Inland Route” was through Springfield and New Haven. Through service existed on this line as early as 1868, and was stopped before June of 1955. Amtrak revived the service, spottily, but no longer has a through train (In 1997, we rode from Boston to New York over this route). When Amtrak first revived the service, someone who was ignorant of competivive fares thought that fare should be higher than that for the Shore Line because the route was about four miles longer.
When were there through trains through Chatham? There is no representation in the June 1868, June 1893, June 1916, or June 1930 Guides.
But if it were a through train to Boston via Chatham it would have been NYC (as would the Harlem train through Chatham to Pittsfield and Adams, MA) and not pertinent to the question. And I waived New Haven off because it is outside the Hudson/Harlem valleys. There are still two parts of the answer left.
I thought I got three. With the through service via Brewster, the New York and New England was not part of the New Haven. When it was taken over, the service via Brewster was dropped and rerouted to New Haven. Pasenger service from Willimantic to Brewster was restored, I believe, when the Pouhkeepsie Bridge was opened a Maybrook - Wilimantic service established but it didn’t last very long. Did you include the West Shore as one of the three? Or did you mean the Putnam? YOu could say there are four: East -to-West: Harlem, Putnam, Hudson, and West Shore. So railroads are NYO&W, D&H and RUtland, and NY&NE. I did not include the New Haven. I simply mentioned that through service (which at one time did include dining and parlor cars, possibly not making it to the lightweight era) as something interesting. I now recall that when I rode it, and I rode it simply to allow my Boston area host to pick me up a few blocks from his home at the Newton station, the equipment was the ex-Roger Williams, but now I remember I had to change across the platform at New Haven, and the Budd equipment did not originate in GCT. YOu could also, as I mentioned, add the TH&B. Oh yes, there was the interesting move of the through sleeper to Lake Placid. Started out from GCT on the NYC, Albany or Troy to the north on the D&H, but then on the branch to Lake Placid it was back on the New York Central!
I thought I got three. With the through service via Brewster, the New York and New England was not part of the New Haven. When it was taken over, the service via Brewster was dropped and rerouted to New Haven. Pasenger service from Willimantic to Brewster was restored, I believe, when the Pouhkeepsie Bridge was opened a Maybrook - Wilimantic service established but it didn’t last very long. Did you include the West Shore as one of the three? Or did you mean the Putnam? YOu could say there are four: East -to-West: Harlem, Putnam, Hudson, and West Shore. So railroads are NYO&W, D&H and RUtland, and NY&NE. I did not include the New Haven. I simply mentioned that through service (which at one time did include dining and parlor cars, possibly not making it to the lightweight era) as something interesting. I now recall that when I rode it, and I rode it simply to allow my Boston area host to pick me up a few blocks from his home at the Newton station, the equipment was the ex-Roger Williams, but now I remember I had to change across the platform at New Haven, and the Budd equipment did not originate in GCT. YOu could also, as I mentioned, add the TH&B. Oh yes, there was the interesting move of the through sleeper to Lake Placid. Started out from GCT on the NYC, Albany or Troy to the north on the D&H, but then on the branch to Lake Placid it was back on the New York Central!
Dave, I’ve reread and therefore have reconsidered your answers as complete. I was looking for the Ulster and Delaware Railroad, aka the Catskill Mt. Div., from Kingston to Oneonta, NY as a through service over the West Shore. But I really got more hung up on the Rutland. You said Rutland at Troy and I was hung up on the R
I rode the Ulster andd Delaware from Kingston to Fleishmans and back in 1946. At that time it was already owned by the New York Central and the ten-wheelers all had New York Central on their tenders. I was not aware that there was every any through service to Weehawken when the railroad was independent. I had to change trains in Kingston in both directions when I rode. I saw one freight, and, like the passenger trains, was also pulled by a 4-6-0.
I made one mistake. I think the handover between the TH&B and the NYC was at Niagra Falls or Suspension Bridge, and not at Buffalo. The TH&B either had its own line or trackage rights into Buffalo, but the passenger trains between Buffalo and Niagra Falls were NYV, if I am correct.
I’ll try, when I have time, to get the name of the junction between the NYO&W and the West Shore. YOu can look it up in the meantime.
Meanwhile, who can name a passenger railroad that did operate sleeping car service that never owned a Pacific 4-6-2?
Dave, Niagara Falls was out of the way for service between Buffalo and Toronto via the TH&B. Welland (the actual railroad junction point) directly to Buffalo is 38.5 miles; via Niagara Falls it was 40.8 miles (the TH&B map gives the impression that it is much farther). After the TH&B reached Welland, there may have been through service via Niagara Falls, but it was gone by 1916. By 1893, the Michigan Central was already running through Ft. Erie. According to the June, 1955, representation of both the NYC and TH&B in the Guide, the TH&B operated the trains into Buffalo, which would have been through trackage rights. The CP operated the trains between Toronto and Hamilton. The NYC operated the trains between Welland and Niagara Falls.
So, I should have left my original answer as correct. Thanks for the information. My trip to Fleishmans was to visit relatives in Holcott Center, and there was neither bus nor rail service to Holcott Center. My relatives sent me a bus schedule to Fleishmans, and then a visit to GCT gave me (a 14-year-old) the timetable for trains to Fleishmans. It was a marvelous trip. The 10th Avenue open side convertable streetcars were still running to the West 42nd Street Ferry. The train from Weehawken to Kingston had a 4700-class Pacific. The there were the ten-wheelers on the Ulster and Delaware branch, and they were similar to those used on the Putnam Division. I think I saw both slide-valve and piston-valve ten-wheelers. Coming back from Kingston, we had a 5200-series J-1 Hudson. Riding the rear platfom, I saw a freight pass with an elephant-eared Mowhawk, mostly refrigorator cars.
You did better than I did, Dave. At the age of 12 in May of 1955 I was riding a DL&W-L&HR-L&NE fan trip to Maybrook, NY sponsored by the Railroadians of America. There was a flyer passed out promoting a September trip up the West Shore and over the U&D to Oneonta, NY “one last time”. I knew I wanted to go, I knew I should go, but I also knew my parents just wouldn’t understand.
Oh, and I have in my possession an 8MM movie (Blackhawk Films?) of the U&D from Kingston up the hill. A camera was attached to the pilot of the ancient steamer and away they went. Circa 1915! I have it, yes, but it really belongs to a friend.
I never got to Maybrook, but I did ride part of the ex-New Haven Maybrook line, between Danbury and Beacon on a FL-9 new push-pull equpment Metro North fantrip with all equipment painted in the NH color scheme. Metro-North uses and owns this line, uses it for equpment moves. I think CSX provides the freight service, and it has a connection with the Hudson Line at Beacon and the Harlem at Brewster.
