Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

Classic Trains General Discussion
1741

Mark, I am really puzzled by your last hint. The April 25, 1954 IC timetable shows no line which runs to a state line and then stops, unless you count the line from Jonestown to Trotters Point, Miss. (crossing the main line of the Y&MV at Lula), and the IC had a ferry service across to Helena, Ark. And, this line was freight only before February, 1950. The only other lines that I see as being east-west are the Indianapolis-Effingham line (freight only before 1950), the Chicago-Fort Dodge line (passenger trains to the end), and the Meridian-Shreveport line (passenger service until in the late sixties).

The IC entered St. Louis over terminal roads, but I do not know of anything distinctive of a passenger train serving East St. Louis or the junction with the routes over the Merchants Bridge or the MacArthur Bridge. The train that connected from the Creole in Carbondale and the train that connected to the City of New Orleans and the City of Miami (through coaches to both main line trains) went through East St. Louis, using the Eads Bridge. The other trains to/from Carbondale used, I believe, the MacArthur Bridge. The Chickasaw and the train to the Panama and the Seminole ran through DuQuoin and not Murphysboro (the northbound Chickasaw carried the cars to St. Louis from the Panama and the Seminole.

There is also the line from Peoria to Evansville (freight only before 1950), but it does not seem to cross the Wabash in a due east-west direction.

I do not see any place other than the St. Louis area which could have had a connection with the MKT.

1742

Actuallyā€¦way back in the MK&T era, Katy would connect with IC, so to speak, in western Louisiana. The Louisiana Railway and Navigation Company of Texas was chartered on March 27, 1923, to acquire a line extending from McKinney to the Texas-Louisiana state line near Waskom. The LR&NT was affiliated with the Louisiana Railway and Navigation Company, which operated a railroad between Shreveport and New Orleans. It was organized by Edenborn to acquire 181 miles of track between McKinney and the state line formerly operated by the Missouri, Kansas and Texas Railway Company of Texas.

I could be wrong, but I think this is what Mark is looking for. I do not know; however, the underlying uniqueness of their passenger service.

1743

Hereā€™s my 2 centsā€¦

The IC route that would remotely qualify for the question would be the Meridian-Shreveport-Lorraine, Louisiana line (at the Louisiana/Texas border) where it connected with the Texas & Pacific. Apparently, this line was part of a grand, pre-Civil War plan to develop a Charleston, SC- San Diego transcontinental line that would follow the 32nd parallel. Unfortunately, the answer doesnā€™t hold up in light of MKT and passenger service hints.

1744

Bingo - Buck Dean wins since he identified this line just ahead of ZOā€™s reply. It was the ICā€™s 19.4mi. Lorraine Branch running west from Shreveport to the Texas-Louisiana state line at the community of Lorraine (just east of Waskom, TX). It was completed in 1866 by the Vicksburg, Shreveport and Texas RR which subsequently became the VS&P, Y&MV and ultimately the IC.

In 1900 the Shreveport Sherman and Southern RR completed a 30 mile extension from Jefferson,TX to a connection with the VS&P at Lorraine. This was acquired by the MKT in 1901 and from that date until 1923 was part of the Katyā€™s Greenville (near Dallas) to Shreveport line which reached Shreveport via trackage rights over the VS&P / Y&MY / IC from Lorraine. In 1923 the MKT sold this line to the LR&N of Texas which later became the Louisiana, Arkansas and Texas, which was the L&Aā€™s Texas affiliate.

In 1956 the KCS completed itā€™s new Deramus classification yard on the northern outskirts of Shreveport. At that time the last seven miles of the old LA&T line west of Lorraine was abandoned in favor of a new route that reached Shreveport via a connection with the KCS main just north of Deramus Yard at Texas Jct. When the L&A traffic was rerouted the ICā€™s Lorraine Branch had no further purpose whatsoever and was promptly abandoned.

The last passenger service was a mixed train which ran between Shreveport and Greenville until its discontinuance in the late 1930ā€™s. This train was shown in the IC timetables of that era as No. 38 westbound and No. 51 eastbound. No. 51 covered the 19.4 miles from Lorraine to Shreveport in one and a half hours. Its average speed of 12.9mph gave it the distinction of being the slowest train listed in the IC passenger timetables.

Mark

1745

Johnny, Iā€™m sure itā€™s listed but itā€™s pretty obscure and easily overlooked. Itā€™s shown as Table 38 - Lorraine Branch in the IC representation in my copy of the June 1954 OG.

Mark

1746

PS -

A few traces of the old IC Lorraine Branch can still be seen in Shreveport. Curiosity got the best of me so last Thursday I drove over to find Lorraine and anything that remained of the old ROW at its junction with the L&A. Lorraine is not shown on any current maps but I had seen an old Geological Survey map that showed the railroad crossing State LIne Road about a half mile north of US Hwy 80 which I assumed had been the junction point. I couldnā€™t find State Line Road or any other road at or near the point it was shown on the old Geological Survey map so I decided to stop in the State Line tavern on US 80 to have a beer and talk to some of the locals at the bar.

When I asked where Lorraine was they told me I was in it and the tavern was all that remained. One of the locals who hunted in the vicinity told me there some crumbling remains of a few long abandoned houses in the piney woods a half mile or so back of the tavern. I assume this was site of the former Lorraine community and the old junction. As to State line Road, it no longer existed and none of them remembered it. Since there are rattle snakes in those woods and I didnā€™t have my boots on I decided it would be unwise to hike into the woods to find the old ROW and junction point so I returned to Shreveport. My quest was unsuccesful but my curiosity was a least partly satisfied.

Mark

1747

Excerpt from 22nd Annual Report of the Railroad Commission of Louisiana (1921)

http://books.google.com/books?id=fnMpAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA6

Order No. 2319

Houlton Lumber Company, et al.

vs.

The Yazoo & Mississippi Valley Railroad.

In re Discontinuance of Agency Station at Goodbee and its Re-Establishment at Lorraine.

On July 23, 1919, a number of persons, firms and corporations located in the vicinity of Lorraine, Louisiana, filed with the Commission a petition praying that the agency station now maintained by the Yazoo & Mississippi Valley Railroad at Goodbee, Louisiana, be removed from Goodbee to Lorraine.

The carrier was served with a copy of the petition, and the application was likewise brought to the attention of interests at Goodbee, in order that they might take such steps and submit such evidence to the Commission as to them seemed proper. The case was accordingly assigned for hearing and was taken up at sessions of the Commission held in Baton Rouge on September 23, 1919, and November 18, 1919; when evidence was heard by the Commission introduced by petitioners, the defendant carrier and the protestants at Goodbee.

The attitude of the railroad is practically one of neutrality; contending itself with submitting evidence as to the comparative earnings of the two stations, making plain, however, its position with regard to the maintenance of agencies at both stations. It alleges that there is not sufficient traffic to permit it to maintain both points as agency stations, and this is unquestionably a fact. It falls to the Commission, therefore, to decide as between the conflicting claims of the two communities.

Goodbee was established as an agency station quite a number of years ago, shortly after the projection of the line of defendant from Baton Rouge to Covington. It is 6 miles from Covington and 16 miles from Hammond. There was an attempt

1748

[quote user=ā€œwanswheelā€]

Excerpt from 22nd Annual Report of the Railroad Commission of Louisiana (1921)

http://books.google.com/books?id=fnMpAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA6

Order No. 2319

Houlton Lumber Company, et al.

vs.

The Yazoo & Mississippi Valley Railroad.

In re Discontinuance of Agency Station at Goodbee and its Re-Establishment at Lorraine.

On July 23, 1919, a number of persons, firms and corporations located in the vicinity of Lorraine, Louisiana, filed with the Commission a petition praying that the agency station now maintained by the Yazoo & Mississippi Valley Railroad at Goodbee, Louisiana, be removed from Goodbee to Lorraine.

[quote]

Wans, I continue to be impressed and amazed by your ability to find ancient information like this. Your postings add much to the subjects discussed on the CT forum and are greatly appreciated.

However, in this case the Lorraine referred to in the referenced report of the RR Commission of LA is not the one located on the line that was the subject of my recent question. There are / were two Lorraines in Louisiana and both were at one time served by the Y&MV so itā€™s understandable to confuse the two. The Lorraine referenced in the report you posted is located in Tangiphoa Parish in southeast Louisiana and was on a line that branched off the ICā€™s Chicago - New Orleans main at Hammond. The Lorraine I had in mind was in Caddo Parish which is in the northwestern corner of the state. It was at the end of the IC line that ran all the way across north Louisiana from Mississippi at Vicksburg to the Texas state line.

Mark

1749

Wans has a secret ā€œsearch engineā€ I thinkā€¦ he comes up with the niftiest detail.

Iā€™m the heir apparent on BOTH threads. Iā€™ll take this one and post a new question hereā€¦can somebody go to the other and take over?

thanks

1750

Mark, sorry about that and thanks for enlightening me. I never heard of Lorraine and was a million years from suspecting two Lorraines. Checking the map, which neither Lorraine is on, I see places near the wrong Lorraine (Hammond, Goodbee and Covington) north of Lake Pontchartrain.

Mike

1751

Buck, lets have that question you promised us.

Mark

1752

Mark

Iā€™m unexpectedly out of pocket away from my ā€œmaterialā€ sourcesā€¦can you take over please.

thanks

Buck

1753

Glad to, Buck.

While there were a number of passenger trains named for birds, few were named for animals. What US trains were named for (or contained the name of) a mammal and what RR(s) operated them? There may have been earlier ones which I donā€™t know about so please limit you answers to trains that ran from 1930 forward.

Mark

1754

Mark, there certaily were not many passenger trains named for animals. Looking through the February, 1950, Guide, I found only two, and, possibly, three: The SFeā€™s Antelope, the NYCā€™s Wolverine, and the Mononā€™s Thoroughbred (which would be a horse). I ahve a memory of an SP Beaver, but I do not recall when it was operated, though I think it was after 1930 and before 1950.

1755

Thanks for taking it, Mark. Good question.

GNā€™s ā€œGopherā€ and ā€œBadgerā€ come to mind along with California Westernā€™s ā€œSkunkā€.

1756

The Antalope, Santa Fe? Was the Nancy Hanks named after a race horse? Thoroughbred, Monon

Mountain Goat GN? Clamdigger, NYNH&H

1757

Central of Georgiaā€™s ā€œNancy Hanks IIā€ and ā€œMan Oā€™Warā€ were both named for racehorses.

1758

The Antelope, Wolverine, Beaver (yes Johnny it was a SP train), Badger, Gopher and Skunk are all trains that I had in mind. There was also a New England Wolverine - NYC (B&A). The Thoroughbred would be acceptable since it refers to a whole family of horses as would be the UPā€™s Pony Express for the same reason. IMHO the Nancy Hanks and Man oā€™ War are only marginally acceptable since they were named for individual horses and not an animal family.

Johnny and Buck both named three correctly but since Johnny was first to do so Iā€™ll call him the winner and ask him to give us our next question.

Mark

1759

Way to go, Johnny [:D]

1760

Iā€™m sorry to be so late in proposing another question, but here it is, at last:

What train had a name that was associated with the supporters of King Charles I of England when Parliament made war agaisnt him? Yes, the train was operated in the U.S.A. What road operated it, and what were its end points?