Least likely state for logging would seem to be Kansas, but I saw a picture of a Shay on Rio Grande Southern in Colorado, and the D&RG tracks on the old map connect to Santa Fe, NM, the city.
It couldn’t be the D&RGW at Santa Fe, NM. The only service the Rio Grand had into Santa Fe was the narrow gauge Chili Line which of course couldn’t interchange with the AT&SF because of the gauge difference. Santa Fe was at the end of a branch off the AT&SF main line at Lamy. Except when the Chili line was in service, Santa Fe had no rail service other than this stub ended branch. This would preclude the occasional use of this line by named passenger trains which TZ gave as a hint.
I agree that Kansas seems to be the least likely state for logging so I’ll take a WAG and throw out Topeka as the location of this arrangement. Topeka is also on a Santa Fe branch that seems a logical detour route if the main was blocked between Kansas City and Emporia. As to the rest of the question I don’t have a clue.
Mark
It couldn’t be the D&RGW at Santa Fe, NM. The only service the Rio Grand had into Santa Fe was the narrow gauge Chili Line which of course couldn’t interchange with the AT&SF because of the gauge difference. Santa Fe was at the end of a branch off the AT&SF main line at Lamy. Except when the Chili line was in service, Santa Fe had no rail service other than this stub ended branch. This would preclude the occasional use of this line by named passenger trains which TZ gave as a hint.
I agree that Kansas seems to be the least likely state for logging so I’ll take a WAG and throw out Topeka as the location of this arrangement. Topeka is also on a Santa Fe branch that seems a logical detour route if the main was blocked between Kansas City and Emporia. As to the rest of the question I don’t have a clue.
Mark
Was it the Santa Fe Grand Canyon Branch in Arizona and Santa Fe did have trains named the Grand Canyons.
Al - in - Stockton
Yes, Al, the Santa Fe had two --the Grand Canyon-- Northern Section and the Grand Canyon–Southern Section. They were operated on one schedule east of KC, and each had its own schedule west of KC. The Southern section Both had through sleepers between Chcago and LA via the Grand Canyon as well as sleepers that were not switched at Williams (this was before the current line which bypasses Williams was constructed). There were other sleeper lines operated, such as the New Orleans-Oakland line (MoP east of Houston). One section ran via Fullerton.
I’m wondering if what I previously posted about Santa Fe being served by the AT&SF only via the stub end branch from Lamy (which today is the SFS) is correct. In looking at a map in a 1954 OG there appears to be a branch that leaves the main at Watrous and goes thru Santa Fe and Kehne (sp?) and rejoins the main at Albuquerque which I never knew existed. There’s an arrow that points to this line and identifies it as “Indian Detour”. These old OG maps lack a lot of detail and are hard to read so I may be misinterpreting what I think I see. Hopefuly someone has access to a more detailed map of that area in earlier times and will confirm or correct my observations. Situations like this make you appreciate the highly detailed division maps that are available today on the BNSF web site,
Mark
Indian Detours were motor coach tours that were operated in connection with passsenger train schedules. It was possible to detrain at one station, take a tour, and rejoin your train at another station.
Interesting discussion above, interesting lines of reasoning and counter points. I would actually have to research that to say how close or far from being along the right lines though, but …
OK, we are on the right branch. I thought Arizona would be the least likely state to have a lumber industry.
It should be easy now to track down the railroad and junction.
Now that makes sense. It sure looks like a rail line on the map in the OG and it never ocurred to me that Indian Detour might refer to a motor coach route. I knew that for quite a time there was bus service to and from Santa Fe that connected with AT&SF passenger trains at Lamy. Thanks Deggesty for clearing up the doubts I was beginning to have about my knowledge of the Santa Fe lines in this area.
Mark
An additional comment on Indian Detours: I don’t think that you would have rejoined the same train that you left to take the detour; it probably would been at least the next day if not later. There were also detours operated in conjunction with the SP in Arizona. These are indicated in a reprint of a 1930 Official Guide.
Quite Right! A named train that ran on this track regularly was the El Tovar, at least once in 1938 the Chief ran up the track, and the El Capitan came behind the 2nd diesel locomotive ever to visit the Grand Canyon, and a couple of other special occasions.
OK, now that we are on the right branch. It should be easy now to track down the railroad, and not quite so easily the name of the junction.
Ok, not as easy as I thought. I could swear I looked it up easily before I posted the question…but I just now tried again and couldn’t find a hit so…
The railroad is the Saginaw & Manistee Lumber Company. They had at least two shays. It branched out of the Grand Canyon line at Apex. The line went about 5 miles east and then branched like a spider web through the trees. The web angled to the south east but ten miles east, in the middle of the spider web, the line got almost to the south rim.
For any modelers, this would be an awesome place to model where shays working the logging meet in a fairly simple track arrangement with the Santa Fe. In addition to the Grand Canyon passenger traffic, the Santa Fe also had livestock and mining operations along this track.
passengerfan take it away - but please not another specific passenger car question [:)]
Pacific Railway Equipment delivered three coaches one each to three Railroads. What feature distinguished the coaches and what railroads received them? Also what were the seating capacities of each? One of the cars was named, what was it’s name? What were the numbers the other two carried?
Al - in - Stockton
The three coaches were built with pendulum suspension. They were delivered one each to ATSF, CB&Q, and GN. The Burlington car was named “Silver Pendulum”, I don’t know the numbers of the other two or the seating capacities.
Quite right will give it to you. Close enough for government work. The three cars were 1100 a 56 seat coach delivered to the Santa Fe in November 1941.
The CB&Q received 6000 Silver Pendulum in January 1942 it was a 60 seat coach.
The GN also received there car 999 a 68-seat coach in January 1942.
The AT&SF car spent its entire career on the west coast as an extra car in San Diegan service.
The CB&Q car operated in secondary trains systemwide but never in Zephyr service. Its final service was behind a doodlebug operating out of St. Joseph Mo.
The GN car like the other two was delivered painted silver and assigned to the Puget Sounders between Seattle and Vancouver. When the new Internationals were delivered the car was painted in EB colors to match and ran as an extra in that train as well as the GN Seattle - Portland pool train. The GN car underwent shopping in the latter 1950’s and had its windows squared off. It is not clear if it had regular trucks installed at that time or the Pendulum trucks remained.
I was fortunate to ride on all three including the GN car both before and after modifications.
The sad part is not one of these interesting cars was saved.
Al - in - Stockton
Al - in - Stockton, can’t you wait until a decent time in the day before you ask your questions? When I read the question, I thought, “He is testing us on our short time memory, since he gave us all the information recently”–and before I got out of bed, Paul answered the question, a little bit better than I could have, since the name “Silver Pendulum” had slipped my memory. I also had not committed the capacities to memory, even though I did remember that the GN had squared the windows off. I also remembered that, way back, there was amention of SFe’s pendulum car (with no description) in Trains.
Can you give me some information as to the taxi service in Stockton? Last year, we came into Stockton from San Jose (adding new mileage to our travels), and we had to wait for an hour before we could get a taxi to our hotel. The driver who at last picked us up agreed to come for us the next morning so we would be able to take our train out.
Johnny
I didn’t realize the Q or GN had any. As I recall the Santa Fe’s were a huge failure. While they road really smooth instead of bumping, they made riders sea-sick.
Johnny
The taxi service in Stockton is lousy to say the least. Best I can do is give you an 800 number 1-800-954-5595 you can book in advance and have the cab waiting.
I will try and ask questions at a more reasonable hour in the future.
Al - in - Stockton
Thanks, Al - in - Stockton. We had planned to come back from Bakersfield on Saturday, spend the night in Stockton, go to church in the morning, and take the train to Sacramento after church–and felt we should not risk missing the train, so we went on to Sacramento on Saturday.
Post when you feel that you should; not everybody gets up as early as Paul.
Paul It is your question?
Al - in - Stockton