Hi I have just bought a couple of 4-8-4’s old jap brass on ebay
The engines have not been run for a long time and need a serious clean
I am thinking of soaking the frames and motors in metholated spirits to loosen dirt and help remove old oil.
Will this harm the motors or tarnish any paint work?
Is ther something better to use for this.
I live in Australia and do not have access to all the items available that you can get in the US. I need some basic cleaner that will be available in the hardware shop.
Any ideas would be much appreciated
Regards Phil
Hi, I’m trying to do something similar as well. Have been using paint thinner to remove the old paint job. Disassembled the loco and dipped all the fame, tender in. Left the motor out. Don’t think it would survivie the swim.
Haven’t go round to the painting. Keep us posted on your progress. [:)]
I think you might want to pull the motor and any wheel bearings or possibly the gear towers/gear boxes in case the cleaner of choice works too well and etches the bearings or gears. Maybe try your cleaner on a relatively remote or seldom seen section of the locomotive or tender before you do the whole thing. I base my warning on Bowser’s assembly instructions for cleaning and etching parts for painting their die cast locomotive kits and this is with household vinegar!
Do not put the motors in any solution that you use to clean the bodies with.
An electrical contact cleaner is best there. For stripping paint, I have had success
using things like methyl ethyl ketone (MEK) or roller and brush cleaner (designed
to remove paint from brushes-what a concept![;)]) I do recommend etching the
boilers, frames and tenders with white household vinegar. This really improves
paint adhesion. Hope this helps.
Be careful with the metho it attacks acryic paints especially car type acyllics which AR kits used to use on their NSW 81 class . Pull motor out and dip spin with fingers and let dry. Make sure brushes are moving in housing ok if open frame type motor. You can spray with S26 while running motor this is an electrical type cleaner you can get from Bunning’s-hardwhare House type places. Etching with Vinegar is a recommended way to paint brass Loco’s note dont touch areas to be painted or paint wont stick where finger prints are . Regards Les
I am not familiar with the term “metholated spirits” so I can’t say on that. If what you want to do is remove dirt, greasae, and oil just about any solvent would work such as paint thinner. Maybe carberator cleaner from an automobile parts store. If any, don’t soak plastic parts. Most solvents will probably end up removing paint. If you don’t want to remove the paint, you might try hand cleaning (not soaking) with rubbing alcohol, isopropyl alcohol. Don’t soak the motor! As already suggested, first try your cleaning method in an obscure area. Wheel bearings are OK to soak in solvent as long as its not an acid (vinegar).
Hi, my name it is Albert am 35 year old make repairs in that kind of models, in Mexico, and i read thease, so i coment you phil, the best results for that problem for me, it is the BENZINA, thease is a fluid removes old and styky oil grase even paint, do not damage acrilic parts not even paint if you do not rub the part, dries in front of you, these fluid its used by watch repairs and it is ery economic.
Regards for all.
Benzene is essentially gasoline, if I recall. For years, self-repair bicyclists used good old gasoline to clean chains and bearings. Works well to dissolve old oils and grease, but it could be hard on paint, and certainly rubbers and plastics over time. Naptha might do as well, but so would any mineral spirits (mineral oil). Methylated spirits in is merely methyl alcohol. Isopropyl alcohol is recommended for degreasing, but is is also a great model paint stripper, so…
Personally, cheap old Varsol, or even paint thinner would do a good job on the greased parts; just a couple of swishes, then dry with a clean rag. If you are careful, you could use compressed air after the Varsol bath for the motor. Just don’t get the rotor spinning too much on the now clean and drying bearings…it could seize.
Try a TSP solution for the paint, good old tri-sodium phosphate. Rinse thoroughly afterwards, touch up what you must, and reassemble with the sparingly lubed mechanism.
I have used 70% Isopropyl Alcohol as a degreaseer for years. We wash down gas powered R/C cars after the races. Takes off all the oil, gunk and such, PLUS some paint and decals if not careful.
Since we make chemicals your answer “DOWN UNDER” is DAP industrial strength purple cleaner, the above Alcohol and water.
You need gloves to keep from blistering your hand if you mix it to strong.
Start with 10ml of cleaner, 2ml of alcohol and balance water, this makes 946ml (1 us quart) test this INSIDE the tender. The rules are wash with the help of a tooth brush and then rinse with water and dry, i use a hair dryer.
A stronger mix will work faster but this is the point to start. The items at full strength will DESOLVE aluminum, etch brass and eat skin, but it will clean anything from anything.
Have fun and be safe
George P.
Hello to all. I too have cleaned many a locomotive including brass( not mine cant afford them ) the best thing I have found is isopropyl alcohol 99% you can get it at the drug store,remove the motor and any old rubber parts. what Ive found to be the best container is a large glass bottle so you can get the whole frame or body in, then fill half way with the alcohol screw the lid on then you can roll it gently to remove the dirt and grease. As with this product and any other flamable liquid use under well ventilated conditions wear rubber gloves and eye protection and don`t smoke. I know I sound like an old worry wort but I speak from experience. I love this hobby.[:D]
I think there is a less aggressive solution than some of those posted here. I buy lots of older brass and rebuild or repair them for resale. You could say I am an old hand at brass issues. I frequently face exactly this problem. I place the mechanism, frame, motor, wheels, rods and all in a shallow pan of common household cleaner with a mild degreaser. In the United States people will be familiar with brand names such as fantastic or 409. Sometimes I remove the motor from the frame, or simple remove the drive /shaft tube, allowing the wheels to turn freely. I place the mechanism in a shallow pan and then pour in cleaner until it just covers the axles. Then I pu***he mechanism back and forth for a few minutes so the motion of the parts cleans out the old oils. If I want to clean the gearbox I leave the motor installed, place the mechanism in the cleaner making sure the level of cleaner does not come up to the motor. Then I run power through leads from a transformer so the engine actually runs while sitting in the cleaner. Again, the motion of the parts will clean out old oils. Then I simply rinse in a shallow pan of fresh water, allow it all to dry, re-lubricate, and it’s ready to go back to work.
Bill Skinner
DAP Peurple is simple green on Steriods. Cheaper, get it at lowes or Home depot. DAP at 10% is the same strength as simple green out of the bottle. I use it for cleaning 40 and 50 year old car parts. Dry your habds out in a hurry but works well.
WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING!
Responders are NOT reading the question and are offering off-the-cuff responses.
The question involves (a) buying Japanese brass on ebay (b) previously painted by somebody and (c) in need of cleaning. Here are the rules from someone who has been there:
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Before you do anything with an eBay engine, test it thoroughly in the operational department. For the most part, eBay sellers are private enterprise attempting to do better than dealer wholesale and therefore have not tuned their engines prior to sale. If there be anything wrong with an eBay engine and you modify it, it’s yours regardless.
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If the engine passes operational tests, go to step (3); otherwise, either return the model or systematically disassemble the engine until you ascertain precisely what the problem is. Fix or repair as needed. Decide if you want to install a can motor at this point (most Japanese brass used open-frames – cans and coreless were not invented then – and some were very good but some were horrid).
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Now, check your detail – are you satisfied with it? Is there any hidden damage? Last year, I purchased a Tenshodo U.P. challenger on eBay only to find when it arrived that the pilot had two faulty welds. Since these engines come without piping for the pumps, I took the opportunity to install same, then fix the welds. Again, I MADE THE DECISION TO MODIFY THE ENGINE AFTER DETERMINING I WAS COMPETENT TO REPAIR IT!
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If the engine runs well and the detail passes your standards – remember that Japanese brass often is very high quality in the running department but (by today’s standards) only medium or even poor as to detail – THEN it is time to look at the paint – who did it? If you have a factory paint job, DO NOT USE ISOPROPANOL for cleaning – firms like Tenshodo used a banana lacquer which will frost if washed with alcohols. Mild soap and water is about the only thing safe to use on a factory paint
With apologies to nobullchitbids I’m going to assume that most thing’s bought on E Bay are used, and Japanese Brass is definitely used. If the seller is offering a warrantee, it’s rare. Most of the time we have to take the seller’s word on condition and it’s Caveat Emptor,(no refund’s).
That being said, may I offer an ADDENDUM to his very fine posting.
- REMOVING the chassis from the body. Remember WHERE the screws go.
2 The MECHANISM is separate from the body and treated separately… old lubricant’s removed and replaced with new. New neoprene tubing plus more.
- The BODY can be dipped in a pail of MEK, and 99.99% of the paint will immediatly come off.
Most Japanese brass came unpainted. Tenshdo was the exception. Do this OUTDOORS and wear rubber gloves. MEK IS INFLAMMABLE. The body will dry almost instantly. What to do with old MEK? Pour it back in the can with a funnel.
Any painting of the body and work on the mechanism should be done while still separate.
I had an old BALBOA GS-4 that I SAVED $100 on the the paint and rebuilding by doing this myself. I now have the equal to the $1200 Hallmark GS4 in black & silver, but good painter’s and seller’s like nobullchitbids are hard to find. Now if he only he could ‘spel’.
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I would agree with Mr. Gibson that MEK (methyl ethyl ketone) is a good paint stripper; however, significant carcinogenic concerns have been raised about it also, which is why I believe acetone is better.
I did forget to add that acetone has an extremely low flashpoint; while it will not explode like gasoline (NEVER USE!), it burns readily (like alcohol) and ignites at a much lower temperature. Needless to say, don’t use and smoke or use near a water heater or other source of ignition.
As for eBay, maybe I am lucky, but I confess to never having been stiffed by a model rail in that forum, and on the few occasions when I have felt obliged to return a model, the seller has been co-operative. SUCH REQUIRES YOU TO BE AN HONORABLE MAN TOO! Don’t try to fix it, botch it, then try to return it (that does not work!).
Two additions to the above.
If you use any of the organic solvents recomended be sure to remove all plastic and/or rubber. Repititious but important.
I used to custom paint and the best place I’ve found for storing screws is back in the hole they came out of. It saves lots of confusion w/ various lengths.
Guys the only problem with brands of stuff mentioned is its not known down under or under another name not known and we are miles from places where some of this type of gear is available and it cant be sent in the post . My self I am 450klm’s from the nearest decent hobby shop. Les
nobull,
Thanks for the great reply. I have stored up some extra money and am looking at buying a used brass engine. I have printed your post and will use it, but a couple of questions. Are there any manufactures to absolutely stay away from (ie sunset, hallmark etc)? Also do you replace the gearing as well or only the open frame motor? If you replace the motor, what brand do you use, and how do you mount the replacement?
Again thanks for the info
Randy
All very good information regarding brass models and their plastic components. How about old white metal (Zamac) models? My father’s old Varney Docksider has an appointment with the superdetailer for valve gear and accessories before a new paint job. What should I be aware of with regard to stripping and painting Zamac?