Is Canadian National operating the WC, DMIR, IC, GTW, etc as subsidiaries? The reason I ask is because they always put the initials of the previous owner on the locomotive below the number. When UP buys a new company, the repaint, AND renumber the old locomotive, and never give credit to the old owner. CN doesn’t appear to renumber them. It’s almost like they are running them as, for example, DMIR 500, instead of a CN locomotive. See examples below:
I’ve got a copy of CN’s Wisconsin Division timetable from 2004 and they don’t refer to the WC as a subsidiary (they don’t mention Wisconsin Central at all in that document). On the former WC’s New Brighton, MN depot/crew office, the WC’s old “badge” herald remains but they call it the “Wisconsin Central Division” on the sign.
What about DW&P? I’ve never seen any CN locomotives with “DWP” under the cab (not saying they don’t exist - I just haven’t seen them). I’ve seen GTW engines in Cedar Rapids, IA in their blue & red scheme, I’ve seen plenty of IC engines in their black livery with the “Death Star” logo still operating in the Twin Cities. But never any DW&P locomotives.
You know, my gut feeling when I first saw recent pictures of CN loco’s was that I was never sure Hunter’s successor was going to continue with this merger. My next thought was that it was cheaper to paint on a couple of initials than to replace the lighted number boards above the winshields where there were duplicated numbers used by more than one predecesssor road.
But having seen your five examples now I am not sure what to think. In every case except the GTW units CN has moved tthe headlights to the low hood to conform with Canadian practice (I’m not saying regulation). That can’t be cheap. As for the GTW engines with the high headlights, GTW was a wholly owned subsidiary of CN before the invention of diesel locomotives, so I guess it has worked OK up to now. GTW was a subsidiary of CN predecessor Grand Trunk Railway before the turn of the twentieth century. DW&P is the same story except I don’t believe it was ever operated under that name. It exists on paper but has always been labeled as GT or CN. I am prepared for egg on my face if another forum member produces a picture of a DW&P loco or car.
DW&P did indeed have motive power and rolling stock with its name on it. The best known diesels are RS11’s 3600-3614. There were also some SD40’s transferred from GTW that were lettered for DW&P (Delivered With Pride). There were also a fair number of assigned-service box cars with the DWC reporting mark.
Another thought, most of the attention has been given to the sale, repainting and relettering of IC, WC and DMIR power. What is going on with B&LE, CN’s remote subsidiary?
Could be a number space issue in the rosters. While railroads generally number a given make/model of locomotive in a specific series, I’d feel pretty safe betting that no two railroads use the same number series for a given make and model. It could be that either there is no room left in a given number series to contigously add the “new” locomotives, or possibly there is no series for that particular make/model because the railroad doesn’t have any (both are conjecture - no fair picking the example apart).
During the CR breakup, it appears that all cars destined for CSX were relettered “NYC.” It also appears that that will last until the car is shopped/repainted, at which time it will be relettered into an existing CSX series.
Not all UP locomotives are lettered “UP.” Many of the new switchers are lettered “UPY”. I understand this is because UP is essentially out of four digit locomotive numbers.
And, there could be legal/lease issues forcing them to continue to show the old RR designation.
And there was an article in trains some time back about the DW&P. As I recall, there were both locomotives and cars lettered for DW&P.
Note there are sub-rosters for former BCRail, B&LE, DM&IR, IC and WC locomotives. It looks like, with all their aquisitions, they how have many instances of duplicate/overlapping numbers. Note that 405 (SD40T-3) is now listed within the main CN roster even though the picture shows the unit with IC sub-lettering.
The Union Pacific went with the UPY initials to avoid the need to plug random type locomotives into any open hole in the number series, like the Pennsy did in the steam era. As it is they have problems trying to organize the similar type locomotives into a number series.
In the CN pictures, all the locomotives that have low mounted headlights were originally built that way, none were changed by CN or its predecessors. The IC ordered its newer locomotives with low mounted headlights up until the arrival of the SD70s. The gray painted SD40-3 was built new as a CN SD40, and the DM&IR SD40M-3 was built as a Southern Pacific SD45T-2.
CN has plenty of available space to reletter and renumber its motive power. But don’t expect to see it, most likely due to expenses. Those AEI tags cost money, and it would cut into the operating ratio.
Locomotives were fairly hastily renumbered into CSX’s numbering system, but freight cars were relettered NYC, initially with their Conrail (or other previous) numbers (yes, folks, in the ultimate irony, some cars were relettered directly from PRR to NYC!). But Larry, take it from a professional freight-car freak: when a former CR car gets fully repainted by CSX, it’s still lettered NYC, with its CR number. And if it gets rebuilt (as a number of gondolas have been), it may be given a new number–perhaps in the CSX numbering system, even–but the reporting mark remains NYC.
(There are some cars in the Conrail paint scheme with CSXT reporting mark, but those were acquired from NS, not from Conrail, years after the breakup.)
Although it would be possible to letter all of UP’s locomotives with one reporting mark (after all, we “only” have about 8000 units), yard units have been given their own reporting mark (UPY) to help keep series in some sort of logical pattern. It only helps to a degree–the UP is still renumbering road units to keep them out of the way of new orders.
As for the DW&P, I couldn’t present any pictures, but have seen both locomotives and freight cars with DW&P markings. Most of the freight cars had been built in Canada, and therefore carried DWC reporting marks, but I do remember a small batch of ex-GTW double-door box cars (probably former automobile cars) that were used in lumber service (green doors), and had DWP reporti
You never see any engines with DWP reporting marks because CN retired all the DWP SD40s. Before they were retired only 2 of the 8 or 9 on the roster were in DWP, the rest were in CN paint with DWP initials under the cab.
CN hasn’t renumbered any locomotives to my knowledge. The deisel shop has some errors on the CN roster. When an IC/DMIR or whatever locomotive goes into the paint shop, it still comes out as the exact same IC/DMIR locomotive. It just is in CN paint.
In the computer the reporting mark and number are still the exact same. So in that case, where the roster there has made them to CN engines, its really not correct.
Below is just a simple list of different reporting marks you will see that are under the CN flag.
You will see sublettering even more with the freight cars. If CN has gottent their hands on these cars, there will be a big CN noodle and/or the CN web address and the reporting marks will be for other lines they own - such as :
Wisconsin Central (WC/WCCL), Algoma Central (AC) and the Sault St. Marie Bridge Company (SSAM)
Illinois Central (IC/ICG), Chicago Central & Pacific (CC) and the Waterloo Railroad (WLO)
Grand Trunk (GTW, GT), Detroit Toledo and Ironton (DTI) and Detroit & Tolendo Shore Line (DTSL)
Duluth Winnpeg and Pacific (DWP/DWC)
BC Rail (BCOL, BCIT)
Duluth Missabe and Iron Range (DMIR) and Bessemer and Lake Erie (BLE)
Central Vermont (CVC)
Savage Alberta (SAR), Mackenzie Northern/Lakeland and Waterways/Central Western (MKNR), Athabasca Northern (ANY) and Northern Alberta Railways (NAR)
As you can see I have listed the different railroads and shortlines in their correct categories. I don’t think you will see any of the railroads in group 8 in sublettering but you should see things in CN paint with sublettering in everything els