But those are still individual parlor chairs.
Was this car perhaps Wabash 1602 (built for Bluebird service), which had lounge seats under the dome?
Why does the forum put all those REs and quotes???
Subject
Rotatable single seat ‘chairs’ constitute a Parlor Car seating.
Again, before the Amtrak era, at least, the term chair car was only used by railroads to define a coach that was more comfortable than a run-of-the-mill coach. The C&O used the term, and the coaches were air-conditioned and had reclining seats. Parlor cars were parlor cars, whether Pullman or railroad operated. I think the AT&SF may have used the term, but later, lightweight, streamlined, air-conditioned, reclining-seat-equipped was enough and the term was dropped. I don’t believe the New Haven, PRR, RF&P, ACL, or SAL ever used the term. Or the NYCentral.
True, but I suspect that Dakguy201 had his tongue in his cheek when posting that. Kind of what I would think is a “proper” chair car as well…[swg]
- Erik
The CB&Q promoted both Coaches and Chair Cars, the former were found in the shorter distance trains such as the Twin Zephyrs while chair cars were advertized in Denver Zephyr and California Zephyr. The Denver Zephyr also carried Parlor seating and a Parlor Drawing Room on an overnight train. Parlor seats were sold eastbound between Denver and Omaha and westbound between Chicago and Omaha.
The NP Mainstreeter sold Parlor seating in the daytime areas of its schedule as it crossed from Seattle to St. Paul. The parlor seats were used as additional lounge seats for the sleeping car passengers at night. Since the Lounge occupied half the car and the parlor seating the other half. I personally never witnessed more than six or seven parlor passengers on the train and the parlor seats were occupied most of the time by sleeping car passengers. The cars were named Holiday Lounge cars on the NP and they also operated a couple of identical cars in the Seattle Portland pool trains.
I never heard the term Chair cars used on Canadian trains from the latter 1960’s through early eighties and rode most . I was a frequent traveller between Toronto - Montreal when the Rapido’s first entered service and introduced the Parlor cars with paired seats on one side of the aisle and single seat on the other. These cars had formally had the single swivel seats on either side of the center aisle. Part of the rebuilding included a galley that served airline style meals at the Club car seats as CN promoted the rebuilt cars. Cara was the caterer that prepared the meals and was the same firm that prepared Air Canada’s in flight meals at the time. In any case they were excellent for the most part. This same service carried over to the Turbo trains except I never traveled anywhere but in the Turbo Club dome which featured single swivel seats. It was an excellent way to travel.
Al - in - Stockton
The CB&Q used the term “chair cars” instead of “coach” on all their passenger trains, with no distinction between shorter trains like the Morning and Afternoon Zephyrs or the Blackhawk, and the longer distance trains such as the DZ, CZ, KCZ, AZ or TZ. The NP used the term “chair coach” on through trains and “coach” on locals. GN used the term “coach” on all trains.
The Illinois Central at one time designated cars with walk-over, non-reclining seats as coaches and those with individual reclining seats as chair cars. I suspect this distinction was used by many other roads as well. Both had four across seating as opposed to parlor cars which had two across individual chair seating. For example, the equipment section of the OG for the 1937 Chicago - St. Louis Daylight listed the following consist: Library-Lounge Car, Observation Car, Diner, Parlor Car, Chair Car and Coaches.
In the post WW2 period as modern (or modernized) equipment with incividual reclining seats became the norm, the term chair car fell into disuse and these cars were simply designated as coaches. AFAIK parlor cars (which required a first class ticket) were never designated as chair cars.
Mark
20 years later, a public IC TT uses the terms “coaches” on all trains. On the streamlined and better trains such as the City of NO, City of Miami, Green Diamond, Daylight, Land O’Corn and Seminole, the term “Coaches - Deluxe Reclining Seats” is used, as opposed to “coaches” on non-streamlined trains like the Creole, Louisiane, Southern Express, Night Diamond, Chickasaw and Hawkeye. Parlor cars are found on the Panama, Daylight and Green Diamond only.
Seems if “chair car” was a marketing term used at the whim of any given railroad at any time and could be or was whatever the railroad wanted it to be.
I found one place where it may have referred to a parlor car and not a coach. That is in Fred Westing’s excellent book Apex of the Atlantics, discussing the development of the PRR E-6 Atlantic and its applicaton and longevity. (Kalmbach, probablyi out of print) He excepts Frank Stefeee’s Railroad Magazine column on a trip on the Detroit Arrow from Frt Wayne to Chicago, with speeds in the 80’s and 90’s. He refers to a five car consist, coach-baggage combine, coach, “cchair car,” diner, and observation. Possibly this once he means a parlor car. It was 1939 article quoted, with the train at the time. Anyone have an answer?