[%-)] I’m looking to build a harbor scene with a coal dock, to unload hoppers into a barge, and I’m having trouble finding an appropriate model (HO) to build this scene around. The Walthers ore dock looks WAY big for my space - I know it’s length can be shortened, but the height is 10", and I can’t have that high a seperation between track & water level. I also see the Fine Scale Miniatures coal dock on ebay from time to time, but can’t tell if this would work in a waterside setting.
Early 50’s, I’m modeling the B&O & WM, mid-atlantic region - but I’m not looking to model a specific prototype scene - just representative of the era / locale. Kitbashing I can do, scratch is a little scary…
I’ve found some prototype photos online, most of the real docks were pretty large facilities, and most I’ve found were on the Great Lakes. I’m not even sure that an east coast prototype existed (for loading onto barges), but that’s what I would like to build… selectively compressed. The area I have for this is approx. 12" x 60".
I’m in need of the same info. and pics if possible please. I’m 1940s W. Coast HO, but would like to see different approaches also. I’ve looked at the Walther’s kits and need something smaller. (Maybe a foot long or so, (8inches wide/scale 20’ to 30’ high.) Thanks. Ed. I believe tht Norfolk had a large coal dock. There was one on the Hudson River too. Have you had any luck with internet searches? Poughkeepsie maybe. Try asking on the prototype section of this forum. Those guys seem to know about anything! “When Rails Meet the Sea” by Krieger, pub. by Metro Books would be something to get ideas from if you can find a copy.
I just got of a quick check on that HABS-HAER site, and the first hit that came up about an old East Broad Top Rail to Water Transfer reminded me of an article on similar facilities that was in an old (1970-1980 era) RMC. Just an elevated track over a small creek or inlet with a hopper under the track and a spout to direct the product flow into a barge spotted under the hopper. You might be able to dummy something up with an old twin bay hopper suspended under an atlas through girder bridge and maybe a wood or structural shape supporting framework. I’d think something like that would fit into a steam or transition era short line. Kind of a freelance kitbashing project, just like a small RR or mininng company would do.
I see you are from Maryland and If you are modeling Baltimore, you can look at the real thing and see if you can kitbash something. The old B&O (I don’t know the current name) piers off of Pennington Avenue (one end) and Patapsco Ave (the other end). This is in the Brooklyn neighborhood close to Glenburnie. They don’t move as much coal now, but they do move Gypsum and rock. I loaded coal onto barges here for 15 years before we moved our operations to Norfolk. The piers are huge approximately 1500 feet long with a movable loader the stands about 8 stories high. I have always thought this yard with its coal silos and multiple tracks and coal storage yards would be great for a layout. But I’m not sure where I to start. It is actually a small yard and can only handle about 150 cars at one time. The coal dumper is actually underground, its built into a hill. Still pretty big. Not sure with current security regs, but used to anybody could just drive onto the property. I haven’t been there in years. If you have access to a boat, you can get some awesome views of everything. Still be aware of security post 9-11. If you take pictures, you will be noticed. Its located up Curtis Bay. I loaded a 21000 ton barge for a power plant in New London CT. They also loaded small barges for the daily consumption of the power plant out at Brandon Shores for Baltimore Gas and Electric. Unfortunately Norfolk and Southern has now stolen most of their coal business so they are diversifying in to other dry bulk products.
Try looking for prototypes around the Pittsburgh PA region for your era. Pittsburgh, as you probably know, is surrounded by three navigable rivers, so has extensive examples of rail-to-river loading facilities, particularly for minerals such as coal, iron ore, crushed rock, etc.
Another area to look for inspiration might be the Tidewater region of Virginia, particularly Norfolk, Newport News and that area. And also up along the James River, even as far up as Richmond VA. There were large coal loading facilities in that region, particularly during the war years.
Both of those locations will have structures that are different from the Great Lakes styles.
I built the height of my dock to match the height of the deck of the $300 Walther’s 3ft. long ore boat. Scratchbuilding an ore boat is not really that difficult. You can scratch-build a barge with even less difficulty. I kitbashed two Hulett unloaders so that they are operated manually, to (supposedly) unload the 6 bin Great Lakes ore boat. The Hulett unloaders are rather expenjsive, at $169 ea., but well worth the price. On my other dock, there is the 18 bin ore or coal loader, that loads an 18 bin ore boat. This requires a rather lengthy lead track to get the hoppers to the drop-feed bins. Wow! The hopper dumper shown on steemtrayn’s link, is really something. I scratch-built this ore boat, with little difficulty.
A public fishing pier here in town used to have one of those rotary dumpers alonside. My dad would take me fishing there, and when it was operating, fishing was out the door for me. Especially when an L-1 0-8-0 was working in the area. Only problem sometimes was the coal dust in the air getting in my eyes, especially with an Easterly wind.
Dad told me one day sometime in the 40s, the a car down the track started drifting down the approximately 1/2 % grade, drifted about a mile, right over the dumper bed and launched off the kickback ramp into the harbor basin because there was nobody to operate the retarder on the kickback.
I’ve heard that when the Lake Boats started getting over about 800’, they started having ptoblems filling them. The slip just wasn’t long enough. By the time the boats got to 1000’, the dumper was torn down. Been about 15 years now. The Hullets have been gone over 10.
if you are modeling the mid atlantic region including ocean going vessels, you will want to note the difference in the type of vessels. Great lakes ore boats are rarely seen outside of the lakes. Vessels seen in the chesapeake region will be wider as they don’t have to go thru locks. Their structures will be on the stern. Most vessels will be tug and barge out of baltimore, but there are small bulk ships that make the trip usually in the 600 foot range. Ocean going vessels will have hatches whereas the barges can be open hoppers. As the vast majority of coal in this nation is moved by barge, I would model that. I am currently making a harbor but with an oil barge and tug that looks like the one I’m on now. Look at the following page for a model of the era
http://www.expressmarine.com/pgallery.php?photo=inland-7-lg.jpg This is the tug Active pushing the EMI 7250 with 7500 tons of coal onboard. She was built in 1954. Still in service today. I worked on her for 3 years. This pic was made from the end of the B&O piers in Baltimore
Kind of a personal opinion. I don’t know about Ocean Ore Ships, but Great Lakes boats are a bit large, unless you’re into late 1800-early 1900 era, with Whalebacks of maybe 254 to about 360 feet. Definitely most modelers will have to accept selective compression. The Boats I used to watch in the 50s and 60s looked big in the 600 to 700 feet range, which would be between nearly 7 to 8 feet in HO. Largest Traditional (Front Wheelhouse) was the Roger Blough, launched in my home town in 1972 at 858 foot length and 105 foot beam which would be about 9.8 Feet long by 1.2 foot wide. And today many are over 1000’ long. For myself, unless I win a lottery, and am able to build/buy a suitable house or building, I’d go with the overhead hopper to a barge.
Part of my interest in this subject is a late uncle who sailed on ore boats until going into the Merchant Marine in WW2. He used to tell stories of sailing the Lakes and sometimes about the North Atlantic convoys. After the war, he came back to the Lakes for a season. Quit and started working in local lumber mills. Always claimed that after seeing storms in both locals, decided that the Lakes were just way to dangerous, even more than the wartime North Atlantic
Freeway 3,seems like I saw small facility on a dock in a fairly recent MR or MR planning. Anyway the guy simply had what looked like a Walthers coal conveyor slung under a section of dock,so a hopper could be spotted over it and emptied one chute at a time into a waiting barge,.There would have to be some rigging with it and some sort of shack housing the power for the conveyor,or maybe just power lines. Depends on the era. On my layout I have an FSM bucket crane for supplying coal to fishing boats.BILL
