I was recently driving in Hoffman Estates (Chicago suburb) and I noticed a loaded coal train sitting in the Hoffman Estates siding on the ex-EJ&E. It was dark and I couldn’t get that close, so I may be wrong but I believe the power was UP. There were 2 units on the north end and 1 unit on the south end. Keep in mind this is a loaded coal train.
The locomotive on the north end had a red light on it and the headline was not on. The south locomotive had its headlight on dim, my understanding is that this is the normal procedure when a train is in a siding and the red is at the tail end of the train (or am I wrong?)
Keeping #1 in mind, this would mean that there is a loaded coal train going south on the ex-EJ&E? The only place I could think of a loaded coal train going on the EJ&E is that power plant in Waukegan, but southern movement at that location would mean the train came from ex-Soo main, and I didn’t think coal was routed like that.
So let’s assume I am wrong with #1 and #2, and it was a northbound UP train to the power plant in Waukegan. So if that’s the case, while I know that UP has trackage rights on the EJ&E I’m assuming the train came off the overland route, why didn’t it just stay on UP tracks all the way to the power plant as there is direct access to the plant from UP tracks?
I’m pretty sure the Com Ed trains for Waukegan use the EJ&E line as well (UP has trackage rights, I think), purely to avoid the congestion at Proviso. This may be a former case, because there wasn’t as much congestion after UP lost the WE contract to Pleasant Prairie. But Proviso basically has only two tracks available for trains coming off the main line and going directly to Wisconsin (and one of those is really a yard track just used for running). Considering that the trains have to stop and change crews in either direction (not always timed optimally), this can plug things up in a hurry.
So I saw another UP coal train on the J today - this one was stopped at the west chicago siding, which was north of the west chicago junction. It was loaded. Thing is, it started moving southbound not northbound…
Which earlier we were assuming the UP coal train was moving northbound… but yeah if it’s moving southbound - where in the world would UP have originated a loaded coal train moving southbound on the J north of it’s CNW mainline?
Ok but where did it originate? If it was south of the west chicago junction it could have come off the overland route… but it was north of the west chicago junction and headed southbound.
I just saw your post on the Amtrak thread about the same coal train and clearing the Metra. It then came to me that the UP coal train probably was from Powder River. To get onto the J southbound from the UP eastbound, it could have gone around the very tight curve directly to the J or it might be that your train went on up north about one mile on the Belvidere branch and used the crossovers there over to the J tracks parallel, and then came south. Maybe?
I just saw your post on the Amtrak thread about the same coal train and clearing the Metra. It then came to me that the UP coal train probably was from Powder River. To get onto the J southbound from the UP eastbound, it could have gone around the very tight curve directly to the J or it might be that your train went on up north about one mile on the Belvidere branch and used the crossovers there over to the J tracks parallel, and then came south. Maybe?
Well it was sitting on the West Chicago siding on the J - the southern end of the siding is just north of Hawthorne Road, which is about 7000 ft north of that very sharp connector curve you were referring. It is technically possibly that it went up the Belvidere sub and then reversed, however: 1. Why would it do that instead of just taking the connector track? and 2. About 2 weeks ago I saw a loaded coal train sitting at Sutton siding in Hoffman Estates on the J, it was dark and I couldn’t make out the power and I got cold waiting for it to move so I went back home, but seeing as how there were two locos on the south end of that train and one on the north end it may have been a good bet it was also headed south on the J.
The most likely reason was that that coal load was being staged until the power plant could handle it. There might have been a problem with the rotary dumper, there could have been a crew shortage, there could have been an empty coal train that hadn’t left the power plant yet, there could have been other factors that didn’t allow for the train to be taken directly down to the power plant when it got to West Chicago.
This stuff happens all the time (and happened back in CNW days too). Quite a few times the UP will stage loaded coal trains out at Nelson, IL (MP 110 or so) and wait until the eastern connecting lines can accept them.
Coal trains that go from the UP to the CN (EJ&E) at West Chicago head to Plaines, IL south of Joliet, Will County north of Joliet and they might also send coal to Michigan City, IN. I think the Michigan City trains are called “Statelines” but I could be wrong.
Trains sitting up at Sutton Siding are doing the same thing–they should be empties waiting to go to the UP at West Chicago that came down from the north.
These trains will usually move within a day but there are times when they will be parked for more than that. There are times when coal loads at Nelson end up getting the power taken off the trains for use elsewhere until the power plants can take them.
Interesting, but respectfully I don’t think that’s the case - and here’s why:
I doubt they would be staging at sutton - sutton is an active passing siding on the J and for them to leave an entire train there for over a day would probably tie up the line.
Going north on the J there is really no good place to stage a complete train, unless you’re talking all the way north at the Waukegan Yard. Possibly at Spaulding? But it would have to be cut up there…
If a UP train is coming off the overland route and going south on the J at west Chicago, why move north
Ok, so I saw another similar incident in west chicago today - a UP coal train exiting the west chicago yard went northbound on CN. Reporting mark on the cars was NORX (Northern Indiana Public Service Company).
So the train had DP - now all I saw it do was exit the west chicago yard eastbound and go north on CN. Now after the Hawthorne lane crossing the train stopped, and well I was about frozen at that time so I went home and didn’t stick around to see where it went from there. A few observations:
The train had DP - now while the train was going northbound on CN, someone was toggling the highbeams on the locomotive on the southern end - wouldn’t someone have to be in the south cab to do this? This compounded with the fact that I thought I heard on my scanner that this train was “backing up” onto CN for some reason… why I’m not sure because there’s a direct connector for it go to south on CN from west chicago, so I don’t know. Now I’ve also noticed that when UP does DP and there are 3 locos, ussually 2 are in front and one in the rear, in this case there was a single locomotive leading it northbound and 2 on the south end pushing it. So that, compounded with the fact that these cars belong to an IN utlitity, does that mean that this train was simply pushing onto the CN west chicago siding? Why would UP do that, since they have a direct connector going southbound and yard space in west chicago? But if that’s the case, this could explain that mystery coal train I originally asked about in this thread. Also, I’m guessing that this train would stay on the J past joliet, anybody know which power platn specifically it may be headed to? Or have I gotten this all wrong here?
You’re probably right that the train would be headed east on the CN (compass south), but I’m not sure where or why a NORX train would go to them, because I can’t visualize UP giving a train to CN just so CN could hand it off to someone else.
The train went north to the siding, probably because the CN couldn’t handle it anywhere else right away. You come off that south connector and go onto single track–you had no clue what may have been going on on that stretch of track between West Chicago and the next siding. This was probably the call of the CN dispatcher.
And, contrary to your statement, there is no “yard space” in West Chicago for a coal train. It can get off the main line and not be on CN yet, but it’s definitely hanging out of both ends of the yard there when it does, and generally disrupting everything else while it’s there.
This train is a Wisconsin Public Service Coal Train that gets onto the J at West Chicago EJ&E MP 28.9. The train heads north on CN trackage to a power plant in Green Bay. Going from West Chicago empty, the trains (there’s two WPSX trains running but not in the same direction) head to the Powder River Basin, where they are loaded.
The reason as to why it doesn’t stay on UP tracks is because the trin has always been on the Waukesha Sub. BNSF used to control this train up to December 2010. UP co
I saw an empty Michigan City NORX train on the line up. I did a little looking and this one came back via Joliet and West Chicago. This one when it was loaded was probably the one that was seen. We get more Wheatfield destined NORX trains, but I do remember seeing a Michigan City train on the line up that would fit the time frame. You guys would know better than I would if this is the regular route for those trains or something special.
A lot of times when they can’t take trains, especially coal, at West Chicago or down towards Peoria they will stage them west of Clinton in Iowa. A favorite spot is between Grand Mound and Calamus. You can get 3 coal trains in that spot. Sometimes, they just tie the train down and cab the crew in, sending out a new crew when they’re ready. Other times they just let you sit on it for a while, sometimes quite a while.