Code 83 track and older rolling stock

Model Railroader Layouts and layout building
1

Hello everyone! I am new here and this is my first message.

I am planning on building a new layout and I want to use code 83 track since I’ve been told it’s more realistic. After buying most of it (90% Atlas, 5% ME, 5% Peco) I suddenly realized that the rolling stock I plan to use is quite old, from the 70’s/80’s, and I am curious about it will be compatible with code 83 and not derail. [:S]

My collection is European material, such as Marklin, Jouef and Lima.

Many thanks!

2

Since your going to be running mostly European items, you may have a problem with the depth of the flanges on the wheels, hitting or riding on the ties. The best way to check is to get some of your equipment out and put it on the track and check it.

Typically, European model trains used larger (deeper) flanges on their wheels, than in the US on our model trains. I’m not really sure why that was. As I understand it, the flanges on the newer European railroad models have gotten smaller than they used to be.

The good news is that code 83 track (rail) is only .070 shorter than code 100, so you just may be OK.

3

Thanks!

I did what you suggested. old Lima wagons ride on the ties of Atlas track, literally. However, with ME track that doesn’t happen. Anyway, I want to use code 83 so I will be forced to switch those wheels.

Any suggestion on which wheelset shall I use? I am thinking of cargo cars and passenger coaches. The latter can pick up electricity from the track to light up the interior.

Thanks a lot

4

Of course Maerklin needs its own track anyway unless you put in your own center third rail stud system.

My strong hunch is that certain items of equipment will have problems with Code 83 commercial track - indeed possibly even some problems with some makes of Code 100 track. The MOROP or NEM standards from that time permitted very deep flanges, and very wide wheel treads. Even if you handlaid Code 83 using Goo or soldering to PC ties, thus no spike heads, the turnouts and frogs could be a problem.

European track made to NEM/MOROP standards of course should not be a problem. I suspect Peco code 100 should be fine, at least their traditional line.

Turnouts and crossings could be a problem with certain makes of Code 100. I suggest creating a small situation – a tangent, a turnout, and a crossing in Code 83 and perhaps also Code 100 – and try out your stuff.

Dave Nelson

5

Welcome to the Forums [#welcome]

Also another option is to change the wheels out on the rolling stock.

Switching to metal will not only run better but keep the track clean as well.

6

Thanks!

As a matter of fact I AM considering switching all the necessary wheels as a solution, because I have already purchased 90% of the track in code 83. Yes, I am a rookie and should have checked this before [:'(]

Anyhow, which type of wheels do you suggest? I read something about 33" and 36" but I didn’t know what those figures meant…

Any help appreciated! [tup]

7

Did you mean 0.017 shorter?

8

I am curious why you purchased 90% Atlas and 10% other. Why not 100% of one type?

Rich

9

Hi Rich!

I purchased on ebay some Peco stuff really cheap and Microengineering flexible track (concrete ties) was on sale.

Thanks for your support!

10

The wheels you buy should be the same size as the one’s currently on the model. This is to keep the coupler height correct. There are a few different brands out there. Proto2000 and Intermountain are 2 of the most common brands mentioned around here and work very well.

11

Thanks…

And, what those 33" and 36" I see mean? I am curious about it…

12

I suggest a bit of caution before buying a bunch of replacement wheels – the replacement wheels you can get at the local hobby shop or by mail order from Kadee, Intermountain, Proto2000 etc, work well for most of our domestic brands – some work better than others because there are slight differences in axle ends – but European makes may not have the same axle/bearing/journal relationships we are used to. It may take some trial and error.

And of course flanges and wheel treads on European motive power are not going to be easily changed, if they can be changed at all. Some have had good luck grinding down the flanges but this takes care and experience.

Dave Nelson

13

Those numbers are the wheel diameter. And I have no idea what your European wagons would use.

14

Those numbers are the wheel diameter. And I have no idea what your wagons would use.

15

The more I think about it the more I suggest that you investigate improved wheels which are specifically intended for European models of European prototypes. Get too far off on the wheel sizes and suddenly your couplers will be at the wrong height, that sort of thing. Just assuming that replacement wheels meant for American models will work is assuming too much. It sure wouldn’t work the other way around!

There are a number of shops that cater to the European model train enthusiast and this one is at least a very familiar name to me: http://www.eurorailhobbies.com/?gclid=CIifvt29jaoCFYrJKgodL0GF0A

Dave Nelson

16

hi…

I was just wondering… which is the height of the rail on code 83? I am not speaking about tie height, but specifically of the rail…

17

Yes, that is what I meant.

Code 100 is 0.100 inch high, and code 83 is 0.083 high. (And code 70 is 0.070 inch high) These are just the measurements of the rail height. Once it is in the plastic ties, the simulated spikes are on top of the rail foot, thus reducing the depth of the flange you can run on it.

18

Several things to consider here:

  1. It sounds like you are trying to run European Equipment on US style trackage. Make sure that your European stuff is two rail wiring rather than three rail. While they do/did offer a two rail product line, most Marklin gear produced over the years is 3 rail. These wiring schemes are quite different and cause major headaches trying to integrate the systems when it comes to converting locomotives.

  2. The majority of Marklin wheelsets are not insulated. You will cause a dead short using them in a two rail application. The exception to this is the Marklin two rail offerings known on the old days as HAMO. Get out a meter and test your equipment if you aren’t sure which type of Marklin equipment you have.

  3. Don’t use US prototype wheels on European Equipment. The European prototype standards are quite different than the US. Get the insulated wheelsets from the original manufacturer or an aftermarket company selling European Prototype parts. US wheels won’t fit and won’t look right.

  4. The NEM standard will cause you problems in switches built close to NMRA spec. The wider tread and slightly narrower gauge will need to be addressed. Replacement sets that come closer to the NMRA spec is probably the easiest solution.

Good luck on the project,

Guy

19

Say again!!! Time to purchase a new calculator isn’t it???

20

Thanks so much for your feedback too. As a matter of fact I found on the german version of ebay Lima, Jouef and “you-name-it” wheelsets. They even offer wheels with a minimum of 0,6 mm gauge, which would fit nicely with code 83. In case anyone is interested, here is the link: http://cgi.ebay.de/12-H0-Radsatze-Achsen-f-Lima-11-4mm-A-24-4mm-e-i-GS-/290437830261?pt=DE_Modellbau_Modelleisenbahnen&hash=item439f719675

By the way, in my previous layout I had already used Atlas code 100 track with this European rolling stock and had no problem whatsoever. But good to keep in mind what you say about NEM and NMRA characteristics/standards. Should I migrate to Peco track? Awfully expensive… or maybe only switches…