I’m in the process of updating some very old, mid-80’s trucks and I wonder if I should replace the entire truck or just replace the wheels.
I’m leaning toward replacing the entire truck, and just need a nudge to get the ball a rolling.
How does one tell if you should use 33" or 36" wheels?
What are the differences between a 33" and 36" wheel, is it just height?
Not really enough info to say (other than when I use the phrase “very old” I usually am not referring to the 1980s!). I like metal wheels and replace the wheels in “very old” (hah) Athearn, MDC and other such cars while leaving the trucks as is. For signature cars that might get some attention (such as if you have added details or whatever and expect people to look at the car closely) higher quality trucks might make sense, but for the most part I am satisfied with both the appearance and the operation of the trucks the cars came with. Equalized trucks might also make sense on certain track work.
I carefully save my few remaining Central Valley trucks for signature cars in other words.
In the era I model it was possible to generalize and say 33" wheels for freight, 36" for passenger (and there were exceptions on both sides of the aisle)
But it is also a function of car weight and with today’s huge covered hoppers, coal gons, and other very heavy cars, 36" seems to be becoming the standard wheel. Some intermodal cars have smaller wheels due to clearance and other issues. In other words 33" of 36" is not really your choice – what does your prototype do?
Dave Nelson
What type and brand of models? Plenty of trucks are just fine. I suggest you also get The Tool from Micro Mark or elsewhere to clean out the bearing areas in the trucks, this will make things roll much better.
http://www.tlacanada.com/TLA/TLA%20JPEG/Tools/Reboxx%201.JPG
Yes, the only difference between 33 and 36" wheels is the diameter. Certain wheel sizes go with certain truck capacities and car types, so it’s not just a random thing. In general modern cars with 100 ton trucks use 36" wheels and older ones use 33" wheels, but this is not an absolute. Intermediate trucks on some articulated container well cars use 28" wheels.
–Randy
Thanks for the information, this does give me a baseline to work from.
Also using that bearing clean out tool, was a good idea, I’ll have to put that on my wish list so I remember to pick that up the next time I order from Micro-mark.
I’ll just purchase several wheels and trucks and do a visual comparison to match them up. Having extra’s for repair or replacement will be good in my toot kit anyway.
Thanks for the good laugh, “…very old, mid-80’s trucks…”. It’s really funny what other peoples idea of “old” is. If mid 80’s is very old, than what discribes the 1950’s Athearn and Varney metal kit rolling stock I have?
I had already been in the hobby for almost 20 years when that “very old” stuff was made in the 80’s.
My house is old, it is 109 years old now. My mother is old, she is 77, my first car would be getting old if I still had it, it was built in 1963.
In any event I would replace the trucks. My personal preference is to use Kadee sprung metal trucks but to replace the Kadee wheel sets with Intermountain wheel sets. This combo provides the best tracking and free-est rolling truck I have been able to come up with yet - and I have tested everything I can get my hands on.
Sheldon
I’m glad I was able to provide you with some humor.
Never thought about intermixing different trucks with different wheel sets. What makes the Intermountain wheels more free rolling?
Kadee’s have plastic axles and Intermountain’s are all metal. With The Tool you can make just about any plastic truck and any type of wheels roll freely, there will be exceptions but The Tool can help 90% of them.
My “very old” rolling stock is from the 1950s and 60s. I bought a bunch of Intermountain wheels a while back, with the intention of replacing all my plastic wheels. Mostly, this works, but in a few cases the cars just won’t stay on the tracks. I used to tinker, tinker, tinker with these troublemakers, but now I just replace the trucks and be done with it.
So, my advice is, replace the wheels, and if you have trouble, just replace the trucks.
And get that truck-turning tool from Micro-Mark, too. Not quite as valuable as the Kadee coupler gauge, but right up there.
It’s the combination of sideframe material, axle material, fit between axle and sideframe, and wheel hardness and roundness. Note the Tuner tool helps make the fit between axle and sideframe better. The most free-rolling trucks I have ever personally experienced were the Lindberg with plastic side frames and very good steel axles made in the 1960s. Those would roll on a 1/4% grade with an NMRA-weighted car.
When substituting wheel sets, getting axle lengths that match the trucks, and an axle point that complements the truck bearing surface makes a big difference in how the modified truck will roll.
There are 2 downsides to very free-rolling trucks. The first - your track must be absolutely level to prevent roll-aways. The second is that Kadee delayed uncoupling and automatic coupling will not be as reliable - the cars will roll apart rather than couple or stay in the delayed uncoupling position.
The good side to very free-rolling trucks is longer trains for the same engine pull, and less tendency for long trains to string-line on curves.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
GoleyC,
First, Fred and others have given you good advice and info.
To answer your question about the Intermountain wheel sets in the Kadee trucks, The simple answer is the small diameter of the axle ends on the Intermountain wheel sets results in less contact area and less friction in the Kadee sideframe than their own large cone, large diameter plastic alxe.
For an very in depth discussion, and a some what controversial one, read this thread if you are interested:
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/156052.aspx?PageIndex=4
Warning: It is long and not everyone was in agreement - and there are some “hidden” messages since Sam from Kadee answered another posters questions but did not give him permission to post that info.
Let’s just say Sam verified my statements about axle length and operational theory, which I knew he would since I had already discussed these issues with him by phone and e-mail long before it became a topic on this forum.
At least one other modeler I know of does this and my 500 plus freight cars and his 400 or so freight cars do not lie - it works - very well.
Fred, Yes those old Lindberg trucks where great. Actually they are back in production but now with Intermountain wheels sets - under the name E&B, and the best retail source is Greenway Products.
I use them in some applications but prefer the extra weight of the Kadee metal trucks most of the time.
Sheldon
Sheldon
Thanks, I did not know the Lindberg trucks were back in production. Actually, I became a Kadee convert myself when I shifted to the 1900 era from the 1920s. Lindberg never made an arch bar truck, and nothing but arch bars or the occasional Fox fits 1900 and earlier. Kadee’s arch bar trucks are quite nice - heavy and sprung - both features that are highly desirable to me - in addition to very nice detail. Their HOn3 line even includes 2 wheel bases in arch bar design - hard to quibble with that.
My only knock on the Kadee trucks is that the standard gauge versions are not available with code 88 ribbed back wheelsets. I know you prefer code 110 wheels - we each have valid reasons for our preferences.
Fred W
Fred, If I was handlaying track and/or modeling your era, I might be in your camp on the code 88 wheels - so yes, valid reasons both ways.
I use the Lindberg/E&B trucks for cars that are already “too heavy” and when I need enclosed Timken roller bearings (particularly common in my 1954 era) - no one else seems to making them, unless maybe Walthers still has their sprung plastic version.
Sheldon
Those wheels are now available. Kadee #533
Thank you - got to get my LHS to order some. And get some Reboxx to compare.
Fred W