I don’t get on this forum much but I am spreading my wings somewhat with HO.[:D] My 11 year old is looking to get a passenger car set and although the Walther’s stuff is awesome, it is not in the budget. I do not have any experience with Con-Cor or IHC passenger cars and could use some opinions. Do the Con-Cor come with interiors? I see that you can buy them extra with IHC but maybe IHC’s are more detailed? He’s interested in assembled smooth sided streamliners. What do you guys think of the two brands/offerings?
Firstly, is your son following a particular prototype?
What curve radii does his layout have?
The Con-Cor smooth sided cars are shortened from a scale 80 feet to about 72 feet in length. They are models of the 1940 (or so) Chicago and North Western “400” trains. The sitting cars in particular are similar to late pre WWII Union Pacific cars. So if those prototypes are what you (or your son) have in mind, or if you have 18" radius curves, the Con-Cor are the way to go.
The older IHC models were based on Rivarrossi models, and the smooth side cars were scale length models of Pennsylvania prototypes. More recent IHC models are still 80 feet long but are more generic, the smooth side cars appearing to be modified versions of the fluted side cars which seem to be based on early post WWII Pullman Standard cars.
I think the Con-Cor cars are more solid and possibly better running, and would definitely be more suitable for sharp curves.
The IHC cars are closer to scale length and provide a different range of car types. They might need replacement wheel sets to improve running.
Both types of sleeping car represent the staggered single berth compartment cars, either slumbercoaches or duplex cars, rather than the more typical 10 roomette, 6 double bedroom cars.
My preference would be to try to find Walthers cars at reduced prices, if your curves allow this.
I recently bought a set of Con-Cor passenger cars because it was my only option to find a set of “shorty” cars in the New York Central road name.
Initially, the cars would consistently uncouple and derail. So, in desperation, I removed the trucks and truck-mounted couplers and replaced them with Kadee body-mounted couplers and Jay-Bee mounting pads and Walthers metal passenger car trucks.
Now, the cars operate like a dream, but it took a lot of work and a lot of dollars so, essentially, they are now as costly as the Walthers passenger cars, but I had to have shorty passenger cars.
The problem with Con-Cor cars is that the trucks are lightweight plastic and the couplers are truck mounted with offset center trucks. They will never stay on the track without modifications.
If I were you, I would try to find some Athearn 72’ passenger cars. They run fine out of the box and can handle tight curves.
Con-cor cars do not come with interiors, I don’t believe IHC does either and that is why they are offered seperately. With some modifications, the interiors offered by IHC could be installed into other brands such as Con-cor but they probably wouldn’t match up with the windows and such.
I can speak to Con-cor cars more so than IHC, you will need to add some weight to help them track better. Replacement wheelsets and body mounting the couplers, as posted earlier, will help too. Both brands can be found pretty cheap either thru direct oulet from the companies, hobby shops, train shows and of course, eBay. You can still have a passenger train that looks pretty good and won’t break the bank even with modifications.
My experience of the shortened Con-Cor cars and the recent IHC cars are that both need work to be reliable runners, but the Con-Cor cars need less work, and are generally nicer looking, even if they’re shortened from the prototype. And this is from someone who’s not a big fan of shortened passenger cars.
Frankly, I think that the molding on the IHC cars is downright crude. Edges which are supposed to be crisp are rounded and saggy-looking. The paint and lettering is only approximate, and not always crisp and opaque. Even when not terribly faithful to a prototype, Con-Cor’s paint jobs are at least crisp and neat.
The molding problems with the IHC cars are not only an aesthetic problem, but interfere with operation, too. Since I got a set cheap, I used them as stand-ins for some cars I was still working on. Even with weight added and the bolsters squared up (they wobble like crazy unless you rework the bolsters to square them- there’s that sloppy molding again), they just didn’t run well with the stock trucks and wheelsets. The wheel gauge was all over the place. The stock wheelsets on the Con-Cor cars are much better.
I think that I could’ve improved the results had I body-mounted the couplers, but since the IHC cars were only a temporary solution, I used the replacement McHenry clip-in couplers. Those worked decently, but still not as well as body-mounting would have. Replacing the wheelsets with metal ones is absolutely necessary. I did that to two of my cars before giving up on them.
I gave up on them after two operating sessions, reasoning that I’d be better off spending my time completing the cars I was building as the “real” cars for my layout than spending any more time correcting the problems with the crude stand-ins.
Since then, I’ve converted a set of Con-Cor cars to Kadee couplers for a friend. Once I added weight to them, they were good, reliable runners. And I didn’t have to rework the bolsters.
Truck mounted couplers are a compromise to help them get around 18" radius curves. They will negotiate 18 inch curves, but it’s not pretty. They come with horn hooks, not knuckles, and are kind if light. They are generic. They are not prototypically accurate, though the paint is close.
I initially had some trouble with them derailing at turnouts, but found the problem to be out of gage wheels. The flanges were hitting the frogs. The cheap plastic wheels are easily moved on the axels, so that can be fixed.
If you are going to change the trucks and couplers and add some weight, then you might as well spend the money to get the better quality cars.
If you are looking to save money, just change the coupler on the lead car and have fun.
I STRONGLY recommend larger radius curves. With the exception of the original 4x8 segment, my curves are all at least 30 inches.
I might be wrong, but I believe the IHC cars I have came with interiors?? Could be I bought the interiors at the same time as the cars and just don’t remember.
Anyway, this has come up several times before, but IHC cars are NOT connected to AHM / Rivarossi cars. Rivarossi cars were much better detailed, and at least in later years came with interiors. IHC interiors are nice but the cars themselves are fairly crude and in my experience don’t run all that well. Of the two I would lean towards Con-Cor, although I believe the smooth-sided ones are as noted only available in the 72’ version (their Budd type cars are available in 85’ or 72’ IIRC?). If you could find some old Rivarossi smoothside cars at a flea market or ebay, I would probably get them instead.
can’t comment about the IHC cars, but have some experience with the Con-Cor smooth side coach (I used in a conversion project to produce a shorty fluted siding car). With the shorter length (72 feet) and 4 wheel trucks they are generally more forgiving on smaller radius curves (less than 24 inches) as compared to full-length cars. However, I did replace the wheelsets and added Kadee’s to the truck mounted coupler tang (a bit touchy to do, but workable). I found it tracked well if being pulled, but pushing could be troublesome especially if through a curve or down grade. These last observations are not unusual with any car with truck mounted couplers. There is no real interior to speak of - but I read someplace on how to gain access to the inside to add something in.
Custom Mike made two important points in the opening post. He has an 11 year old who is to be the model railroader. He is keeping within a budget.
I think, Custom Mike is to be complemented for staying on his budget. It’s good for our children to learn how to manage money, and I’m delighted to see parents teaching their kids about budgeting.
An 11-year old does not need super details. Athearn cars as suggested would be a good choice, and they are really inexpensive on Ebay. Con Cor cars will need weight added to them.
If the Con Cor cars are the 72’ smooth side cars instead of the 85’ Budd corrugated side, they will be oaky on small radius track. The Con Cor cars should have some weight added to them. Cars with truck mounted cars can derail while pushing, but they can be pulled on short radius tracks without too many problems.
If the cars don’t have seats, just put black construction paper inside the windows to block the view. That will be in the budget, I believe.
I knew this would be a place to get answers. [bow] Thanks so much. Sorry I had to pull my website address but I read about the policies of the forum and decided since my site is specific to advertising I should not have listed it.
I applaud you guys for the tinkering you did to make your cars work right. It’s too bad you just can’t get something out of the box and not have to mess with it. I guess you can but it comes at a price. I think I will look in to the Athearn cars. It seems that these might have a chance of being a R-T-R product for an affordable price. I know it may be kind of strange but we will be building both an O and HO layout in the new trainroom. And yes I’m aware that the larger curves I can go with the better but thanks for the reminder.
What kind of passenger cars are out there made by Athearn? I’ve seen their Amtrak stuff online but I don’t know if they offer anything else. Do they have interiors?
If you guys could lend anymore input, I’ll take it.[:)]
Bachmann sells these passenger cars that might interest you. They can be had for around $20 each if you shop around. They probably don’t need as much work to run reliably as the IHC/Con Cors do. (weight, better wheels, knuckle couplers) The Bachmanns are already lighted too.
wjstix-IHC’s don’t come with interiors. The last I checked they didn’t even have interiors in stock on their web site.
I have the IHC heavyweight cars, so I guess they did come with interiors even if the others don’t.
Athearn makes two types of passenger cars, “Standard” or Heavyweight (HW) cars based on steam era Santa Fe cars, and “Streamlined” or Lightweight (LW) fluted-side streamlined cars based somewhat on Budd passenger cars.
They don’t come with interiors. If the cars aren’t lighted it isn’t that noticeable with most cars. You can tape a little wax paper on the inside of the car windows to obstruct the view in, but still allow light to show thru. No one makes “one piece” interiors for Athearn cars (like Rivarossi or IHC cars have) but there are kits out there you can use to add interiors (and passengers!).
Amtrak is a roadname offered with the lightweight cars, in IIRC the ‘phase I’ 1970’s Amtrak scheme. Other roadnames are available for both types of cars.
I have both IHC and Con-Cor cars that I occasionally run on the layout. Neither come with interiors (Palace Car Co. makes interiors for the Con-Cors) and the IHC’s needed a lot of work (weighting, wheel replacement, coupler replacement, etc.) to work well. The 72’ Con-Cor cars need a lot less work, and since you’re son is going to be the engineer, I’d probably recommend them instead. They’re nice cars, just need a little additional weight–especially if you’re thinking in terms of either 18 or 22" radius–for good, solid tracking. And if you prefer to replace the horn-hook couplers, McHenry makes a pretty good Kadee-style knuckle coupler that will fit on the trucks just by snapping them in.
Athearn also makes ‘shortened’ versions of both Pullman-Standard and flute-sided streamline cars (both, I believe, designed after Santa Fe prototypes) and come with better rolling trucks, weights and pretty good detail. And replacing the stock Athearn couplers with Kadee #5’s will ensure better coupling. They’re worth looking into, and don’t really cost much more than the IHC’s or the Con-Cor’s.
My own personal recommendation would be either the Con-Cor or Athearn cars.
I have a passenger set of IHC cars as they were the only cars available in my HO scale KCS “Southern Belle” paint at the time. The cars do not have interiors, the talgo type trucks operate poorly, and the cars do not have much detail. I did a lot of work on these cars to get them to run including weight, new metal wheel sets and replacing the couplers with KDs using JayBee coupler mounts.
While the Walthers cars may seem expensive, to get a cheeper ConCor or IHC car to that level of operating or detail may cost more in the long run. I agree with the above observation that you can probably find the Walthers cars at a discount train store on the Internet or on Ebay.
Start with a small consist and add on to your passenger train as the budget may allow. If you tale a look the the Model Railroader series on pike size passenger trains, you will note that there were many protype passenger consists of a locomotive and one or two cars.
As a former hobby shop owner I would suggest that you see if you can find a couple of the older Athearn passenger car kits. At 11 years your son is about at the point that he can start putting the basic kits together. While the Athearns are not smooth side cars I doubt that your son would notice the difference. The high detail of the Walthers would not be likely to survive an 11 year olds abilities to handle them.
My experience is that if a child builds some of his own cars he not only learns to read plans but has a great deal more pride in it than if an item is just purchased for him. You will probably also have to help him but don’t fall into the trap of building it while he just watches. Supervise him but let him do it himself. Please don’t pass up this chance for a learning experience for your son.
I’m with the Majority here, that IHC cars are the worst (and cheapest) out there, and Walthers’ arguably the ‘best’ in passenger. (Yes, I have the 10 car CZ set).
I find that the line accepatability and of unaccepabity is drawn at ‘WHATEVER WORKS’ and ‘PRICE’. (For example: the BEST cars (85’) are the WORST for 18" radius).For some, THE ‘unacceptable’ line way be drawn at ‘Paint job’.
I particularly agree with Heartland Division CB&Q in that .“for an 11 year old” the Athearn ‘Streamlined’ passenger set fills the bill - especially on a (presumed) 4X8 poard. - Did I come close?
Between ConCor amd IHC there is no contest: ConCor built some 72 footers, IHC did not. ConCor modeled their 85’s on ATSF’s cars/CZ Domes where IHC’s were totally Generic. ConCor attempted accuracy with their paint jobs (IHC did not). BOTH used poor quality Talgo trucks. There, the similarity ends.
Summation: Whatever fills your needs - at the price you are willing to spend.
I don’t want this to get too complicted but in recent years Bachmann have increased their quality. I have some of their Silver Series rolling stock that seem alright. However, I don’t see an easy or a uniformed purchasing option for the Bachmann 85’ Budd cars. Price seems to be between Walthers and Con-Cor. I’ll keep looking for options and I appreciate all the help.[tup]
