Here is my loop layout.(Note 1. should say the B&O interchange tracks connect to the PRR interchange tracks and not the WM to make the loop.)
The B&O and PRR interchange tracks represent both ends of the layout and are connected together on the actual layout to make the loop. One track is the B&O interchange at one end, and the other track is the PRR interchange at the other end. There is one more track used as a runaround track for switching either interchange track. When a train goes to the interchange, it drops all of the cars it took and picks up the cars that are there for it. The loco and caboose swap ends of the train and it returns back the way it came. It does not continue on in the same direction.
I have four operators when we operate and my RR is fairly small, only 9X24. One for the main C&A RR, one for the Western Maryland coal branch on the upper level, One for the Port, and one operator for the Yard at Brunswick.
As far as car movements go, The local trains that go around switching the industries don’t generally take cars from one industry and place them at the next one. The trains pick up cars from all industries on their run and take them to the yard for classification to be sent out on another train for delivery to the next destination. Trains also take cars from the yard which are destine for industries on their run. So the trains move about on their routes picking up and setting out cars, but don’t set out any cars they just picked up.
Some trains or routes that I run on my loop layout are: B&O interchange run; PRR interchange run; Eastbound local; Westbound local; Port interchange run; WM eastbound t
I have found that some type of passing siding is needed at or near any town or group of industries where a train would do some switching. Since you have a double track mainline, the easiest way to correct that is to add some crossovers. These crossovers would then be used as your passing sidings when switching. I would be inclinde to arrange them so the passing track is on the outside side of the town or industry location. So your trian could go out from the yard switching the right side, get to the end of it’s route, turn around and come back, again switching the industries on the right side, which is the opposite side that you were switching going out.
I think you may be mixing uses or are confused about the suggestion for staging.
If you consider the 4 track YARD as staging. then you won’t be setting cars out there. Staging represents the “rest of the world”. From the standpoint of operating your layout, a train holding in the staging yard is “invisible”. It doesn’t become visible until leaves the staging yard.
If you are building trains there then that means you are considering it a switching yard. So it is a visible part of the layout.
Why are you setting out the cars at the 4 track yard instead of taking cars to the yard where the engines would already be?
Gee, Rich, I think you are making it more complicated than need be?
If I understand your first Q correctly that is.
With my loops, I consider them to be the “main line” and I run the trains around and around and around as long as I want to to simulate the “real world” main line distance travelled to get to another point in the “real world”. It matters not to me what they “pass while getting there”…siding, yard, engine servicing etc.
I just run right pass whatever is not needed to"get there".
The reason I HAVE loops is to simulate “long distances” between stops/facilities.
The rest of the layout except the loops is a “blur” that “doesn’t exist” until My train has “reached that destination”, then it proceeds to do its “job” there at the destination, and then the “main line” {loop} then “doesn’t exist” to the job at hand at the destination…
If you inderstand what I mean.
Just because I am coming upon the engine servicing facility sidings DOESN’T MEAN I have to immediately stop at it or stop everytime I complete the loop past it. I stop there only when the train has completed to loop for the umpteenthtime that represents the distance travelled to NEED to go the servicing facility, then I stop there.
I copied Rich’s trackplan here to orient those coming to the discussion later on.
Please note that the heavy outside line is double-track, that the square corners are really curves (simpler to do corners here) and there are crossovers at strategic locations between the east and West mains to facilitate traffic and switching. East is East, but West is actually the opposite direction from indicated.
We’ve covered a lot of ground and it looks like Rich has some tantalizing prospects for interesting operations with his layout.
The first is it looks like 4-Track Yard will serve admirably as the staging yard. It can hold trains, represent various destinations, and serve as a fiddle yard to move cars on and off the layout. Since it’s a continuous run, it will also support loads in/empties out sequences for open top cars, as loads can all move in one direction and empties in the opposite direction. passenger trains can also move on and off the layout there.
I’d suggest making the Freight Yard a division point, where trains go to be serviced, broken down to pass cars between locals, and where a lot of the traffic on your line originates (oil terminal, mfg district) and others terminate.
Passenger trains can originate there at the downtown station. Commuter trains go as far West as the Suburban station and return. Through trains continue on to staging. Passenger trains also go west from Downtown Station to staging. I could see at least one through train each way each day. Maybe a local or two, also, plus morning and evening commuter trains. Except for the commuters, all trains go to staging and are turned to return to Downtown stations. or you could swap locos, let the train continue in same direction, but with a new loco, so when it reappears from staging, it’s coming from the east as what
I see that quite a bit in the Chicago area; that is, a “belt” or branch line trackage. Unfortunately for me, my completed layout features a double main line, and I have no room to build a branch line. For the most part, my industries are directly connected by spur tracks to the main line. It would seem to me that most home layouts, being smaller than larger, cannot afford the space to build a branch line, relying instead on spurs off the main line.
Regarding cabooses, that issue always confuses me. I run all of my main line freight trains with a caboose. So, that raises the question in my mind about the use of cabooses on locals where a yard loco is picking up or dropping off strings of cars on a spur line. I like the idea of just leaving the caboose at the drop off point and then picking it up once again when it returns to take the string of cars back to the yard. So, a yard loco could run on the main line without a caboose in tow?
Certainly, the prototype practice is to place industrial spurs along a siding next to the main. Like a lot of things in model railroading, some compromise is usually necessary. With the double-track main, it’s easy enough to treat crossovers as the ends of sidings and not sweat the small stuff that can’t be shoehorned in.
Generally, a switcher can operate inside yard limits without the need for a caboose to carry the markers. You could have yard limits extend from Freight Yard to the Farm siding to allow for operations without a caboose.
On the other hand, you can tack on a caboose before leaving Freight Yard, run to Farm, leave caboose on one main, take care, pull cars to main, get caboose on rear of train for return to Freight Yard. If you can physically manage that switching scenario within the limits of in-place track and turnouts, you’re good to go with that. You may need to leave a traffic window in your schedule to let permit the local to operate, but that’s the way the 1:1 does it sometimes, too, when it needs to.
Technically yard limits have nothing to do with whether or not there is a caboose. That is entirely decided by labor agreements No prototype rules that I have read require a caboose on any train.
Really the question is what is the concept of the trains he is running. In almost every case that has been discussed a switcher runs engine light or cab hop out to a single industry, pulls the entire track and that entire cut becomes at some later point a train. How does he spot the industries?
The question is what is the concept? Is Rich running unit trains? In that case forget the switcher, not needed. Run the road power and caboose out to the industry, pick up the cars and you have a train. the switcher never touches a car.
If he is not running unit trains, pulling all the cars in one whack is b o r i n g.
Run a local out, an engine 10 spotters and a caboose, switch the first industry. That means pick up the some of the cars and spot some new ones, then go to the next industry, pick up some cars and spot some cars, then maybe the next industry the same, then bring the cut of pulls back to the freight yard, Let the switcher switch it up. A train runs out of staging, makes a couple loops, and sets out SOME of its cars and picks up the cars going in its directions. Then it makes whatever orbits required and goes back to staging. Another train in the other direction runs out of staging, loops as desired, stops at the freight yard, sets out cars, picks up cars going in its direction, loops as required and goes back to staging.
Really the question is what is the concept of the trains he is running. In almost every case that has been discussed a switcher runs engine light or cab hop out to a single industry, pulls the entire track and that entire cut becomes at some later point a train. How does he spot the industries?
The question is what is the concept? Is Rich running unit trains? In that case forget the switcher, not needed. Run the road power and caboose out to the industry, pick up the cars and you have a train. the switcher never touches a car. If he is not running unit trains, pulling all the cars in one whack is b o r i n g.
Run a local out, an engine 10 spotters and a caboose, switch the first industry. That means pick up the some of the cars and spot some new ones, then go to the next industry, pick up some cars and spot some cars, then maybe the next industry the same, then bring the cut of pulls back to the freight yard, Let the switcher switch it up. A train runs out of staging, makes a couple loops, and sets out SOME of its cars and picks up the cars going in its directions. Then it makes whatever orbits required and goes back to staging. Another train in the other direction runs out of staging, loops as desired, stops at the freight yard, sets out cars, picks up cars going in its direction, loops as required and goes back to staging.
ALL the cars the through freights set out at the freight yard go to indistries served by the local. The switcher builds the next local. It runs around the layout switching a few cars here a few cars there, and comes back to the yard. If Rich has problems with spurs only in one direction then run two locals, one in each direction One switches only clock
A unit train is a train made up of cars traveling on ONE waybill. They were invented in the 1960’s. A grain train in 1950 would have been 50 cars of grain, each car with its own waybill. They could have all been the same commodity from the same shipper to the same consignee, but each waybill would have on car number on it. With a unit grain train, there is ONE waybill with 50 car numbers on it. All the cars are from the same shipper going to the same consignee. There are some minor variations, but that’s the basic gist.
So technically a train of mixed freight is not and could not be a unit train since each car has a different waybill.
Some railroads consider an intermodal train a unit train because all the CARS are from the same shipper (the origin ramp) to the same consignee (the destination ramp). The boxes go all over the place, but the cars all go from one spot to one spot.
Not indignant, just just giving you a peak around the bend. Yes you have to walk before you run, but you still should know that the end game is to be able to run.
Plus if you have picked up the cars in a block you have already crawled.&
There is an easy way and a hard way to switch a yard and make up trains.
The hard way is just to shove cars into whatever tracks will hold them. Then when making up a train, pick the cars by sorting through all the yard tracks for the cars you want next. This is called Cherry Picking and is not very efficient.
The better way is to have each yard track assigned to a train. When a train arrives, it’s cars are sorted (classified) according where the cars are to go. Which means if the car is to go East, put them on the track for the Eastbound train. Then when the train is built, all of the cars on the Eastbound track are pulled for the Eastbound train.
This is the system that I use and it works very well.
I want to thank you all for this discussion, as it has opend my eyes to how to really run our recently expanded layout. One question remains for me, and is a point of debate with my 10yr old. Can the engine running the locals (deisels, either an MP15 or GP9) do so in either direction without being turned cab forward, or should it make a trip to the turntable first to be pointing the right direction? Are there situations where the loco can push a few cars on it’s nose down the line for any distance?
Also, in regards to how the cars are oriented, does the end with the brake wheel run leading, trailing, or doesn’t matter?
The prototype uses something similar but they don’t necessarily switch by train. They switch by “block”. A block is a group of cars that will be handled together between yards, junctions. interchanges or industries. A train carries one or more blocks.
If the train between Houston and Ft Worth, the HOFW train, carries just one block of cars the “FTWR” block, when Houston switches the cuts they won’t see “HOFW” the train on the switch list, they will see “FTWR” the block.
The train from Ft Worth to Chicago, FWCH, carries 3 blocks, one for Chicago, one for Texarkana and one for Memphis. When the yard at Ft Worth switches cars they won’t see “FWCH” on the switch list, they will see CHGO (C), TEXA (T), MPHS (M) blocks and they will switch each block into its own track.
The cut to switch looks like:
XXYCMXTYCVTTXMCTMVTCCMTVMCCVTTMMMCMTT
Yes. That’s one of the advantages of diesels. They can run in either direction.
Yes. There are very long “shoves” in the real world. For the ones that cover many miles, a caboose often led in the past and a rare few are still used today.
Doesn’t matter. The real railroads don’t turn individual freight cars to have brake wheels all pointing in the same direction.
You’re running a class A. So you had both really long main line haulers, and local road switchers/short lines to do the industry work. Sometimes they would share the same rail, but more then likely they would divide and counquer, depending on their load.
For example, the C&O’s bread and butter was really cheap coal. So they would take very long cuts of it out of West Virginia and Kentucky. But not everyone of their customers would need long cuts of coal. And using mainline steam for local delivers was NOT efficient. So they would drop it off at a local yard and have locals/road switchers deliver it.
In your example, it would be rare for a train to stop at one farm to pick up a LCL (Less than container load). A small Connie, Mike, RS or GP would be more then likely to pick up a load at a farmers co-op or grain silo then drop the load off at either a bakery, or a yard to be delivered to customers.
So you can run it either way. The best bet is to read about how your industry worked (“Industries by the trackside” is a good book) to find out how loads were swapped in and out.
As others have mentioned, yard work is key here is most cases. Yard Switching is actually one of the more hectic (and enjoyable) operational aspects. Not only must you avoid excess switching, but you must also build a train that is operationally efficient. (Putting similar cuts of cars together)
I’ve had the “opportunity” to see a lot of local freights over the years and I don’t recall anybody caring which way a road-switcher (like MP15s or GP9s) were facing, unless they wanted the engineman on a certain side to work with handsignals. It made so little difference that in some cases the engine left the initial terminal running backwards (low-nose GP30) and in the course of shifting at a wye at the end point got turned and then came back in to the initial terminal still running backwards. Some road-switchers actually had control stands on both sides of the cab and some enginemen wouldn’t bother to change sides, but would just turn the seat around and run in reverse.
It doesn’t matter where the brake wheel is, but some cars had to be facing a certain way for loading or unloading at the destination and it was up to the local freight conductor to make sure they were spotted properly.
