Continuing the saga of the metal wheel sets................

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Good Morning!

Well, you all convinced me to install metal wheel sets on my HO rolling stock, you convinced me to go with Intermountain, and I bought 100 - 36" and 600 - 33" sets.

I installed the 36" on an 11 car Athearn heavyweight consist and the results were outstanding. Last week, I began installation on the 125 plus freight cars - which is the guts of this posting.

I set up shop for the installation, having all the tools I could need readily available. That includes the neat journal reamer from Micromart too! The 3 foot mounted test track was set on a slight grade, which would give me some sort of minimum standard for “free rolling”.

All of the cars with Athearn sideframes took the installation beautifully with terrific results! Actually, most Athearn cars were pretty good to begin with. Those “blue box” kits are really special, and got many of us started in the hobby. Now the MDC, Walthers, and Accurail cars (even the new built WP feather boxcar I just got) easily took the wheel sets, but improvement in “rollibility” was not much. On the worst ones, I installed some Athearn sideframes (weathered of course) and that worked like a charm.

Well, that left cars with metal side frames - specifically Ulrich, Silverstreak, and very old Athearn. These cars have the old sprung trucks, which I always liked. Unfortunately, they don’t roll all that well, and during the installation I had to take them all apart, do some filing and sanding, reaming, and apply couple of dabs of graphite. The results are a definite improvement, but none of them roll as free as those with the Athearn delrin trucks.

Ok, so about half the freight cars are done, and the results are very much in agreement with what you all indicated. Obviously the cars are more free rolling, the sound (to me) is appealing, and they look more "

2

Personally I think that the free rolling car thing is sorta overrated.Mostly because of the roll away problem on the slightest of grades. The famous John Allen said he liked a little resistance so’s he could spot cars at least on shallow grades.Also john usually ran short traains anyway or at least I’m under that impression from the photos I see.I think the main advantage is how well they keep clean. But, if you havew a large layout and long trains they’re definetly the thing.You also hardly ever see plastic wheels on the prototype . Just my [2c]

3

I’ve encounted a minor problem related to the use of Kadee sprung metal trucks, and am going through my rolling stock fleet and eliminating them as much as possible.

I had a couple of reefers sitting on a siding at an icing plant that had Kadee metal trucks with Kadee metal wheelsets. Somehow, one of the trucks was derailed just enough to short out the siding, but not enough to trip the DCC system’s circuit breaker. The heat generated in the Kadee truck’s sideframe was enough to melt the plastic bottom on the reefer and fuse it to the truck sideframe, and the plastic axle in one wheelset was melted to the point that the wheel was no longer attached.

4

I run about 15 car freights on my flat-world, round-the-room shelf layout with all the trucks being the metal sprung type, When cars are set out at an industry, they won’t roll away, even on the slightest macro grade. And when I run 30-40 car trains at my club, I may need another diesel, that little extra resistance acts more like the prototype.

5

Sounds like it is going to all work out for you then. The problem you are having is an easy fix, some people would not agree with the method I use to keep cars from rolling away after bing spotted on side rails.

First thing you do is place the car where or near where it should be, the mark on one side of the rail with a pencil or marker at the nearest front point of where the car should be stopped.

Next get out your soldier in a small amont on the rail head about an 1/8 inch with on the head, file and polish this down flat just enough so it cause’s a slight bump when the car goes over it.

This is like a wheel chaulk in all aspects and holds the car. just my thoughts though.

6

You need another feeder to that track.

David B

7

Glad things are working out for you.

The Athearn BB Trucks are a particular favorite of mine. Those take the Metal wheels (Mine is Proto) fairly consistantly with the help of the reamer.

You may or may not have discovered a few trucks have wheels in gauge but are not together and either dogleg sideways just a little bit or have too much favoring on one side overhanging too much.

If you have not discovered the “Roar” on large trains you will soon.

Oh one other item. I had a set of three Kato Covered Hoppers kit built and those three would roll on inclines not detectable by the mark one eyeball.

The present RTR stuff with the metal wheels are acceptable but probably end up being replaced anyhow because of thier dishy mirrior finish that isnt that credible.

8

My 50-car coal train had no problem climbing the grade with plastic wheels. That is until I added the coal loads. The drag created by the extra weight would cause the cars to tilt towards the inside of the curves, and to continue moving would result in the train being stringlined. Converting to Intermountain wheelsets solved that problem.

http://good-times.webshots.com/video/3051735240039019157rApKtE

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8

9

My MDC steam locos performance was greatly improved by using the modified coupler spring wipers idea as seen at Two guyz and sum trains.com.

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??!??One hardly ever sees nickel-silver on the prototype either.

11

After reading about your problems with the IM’s on the sprung trucks I went out and looked at a couple of mine. They have brass axle/plastic wheels on them and work well. I swapped these for some P2K’s to see if they fit and worked better. (they don’t) P2K axles are too short for these trucks. Just thought I’d add that in case you were going to try those next.

12

This site was posted here a while back (I can’t remember who by) but has axle lengths by manufacturer, a lot of work put in, very helpful.

http://www.reboxx.com/wheelsets.htm

13

Good Morning again!

Thanks for all the comments, they are appreciated!

There was one posting regarding shiny wheels on the RTR cars, and I have to agree.

For Christmas I got an Accurail 50ft WP boxcar - orange with full feather on the side. Of course I dull-coated it and weathered the trucks, and figured to keep the metal wheelsets that came with it. But they are like mirrors, and just don’t look “right”. Also, even after some work on the trucks, the car doesn’t roll as easily as the Athearns. But it rolls OK, and I just might “dirty” up the wheels with some thin flat black/rust paint.

I currently have about 125 freight cars on the layout/staging area. I finished converting the first 50 cars over the weekend (work your fingers to the bone, what have I got - bony fingers). The second 50 will get done next weekend, and the final cars will get done when Walthers fills my order - expected in early February. Seems like a lot of folks bought the IM wheels this winter and they are getting scarce (bulk sizes).

Oh, one other thing… Before I put the converted cars back on the layout, I cleaned the track really, really good. No sense putting clean wheels on dirty track!

Hey, thanks again,

Mobilman44

14

CHOICE: older metal trucks (with springs), or replace with newer (unsprung) Delrin type TRUCKS such as Kato. (It’s the comination of polished needle point axles and Delrin sideframes that does it. Athearn uses trucks & wheels from multiple suppliers.

I use the Kato freight trucks on old Ulrich, Walthers, and Athearn all metal trucks. They roll as good as the IM’s and are black. As I said before,“It’s the Combination” that counts**.**

Advise: Use the ‘TOOL’ judiciously. Enlarging the hole can drop the needlepoint axle bearings into a greater friction producing point. ‘‘LESS is more’’

15

Don,

Thanks for the advice on the Kato trucks! I have saved up a number of the old Athearn metal sprung trucks (because I like the looks and for nostalgic reasons) and sadly they just don’t compare to the better new ones. Ha, maybe they will be a candidate for my Ebay auctions next Christmas!

The reamer was used only when necessary. I actually only had to touch up a handful of the plastic journals, and of course most all of the metal ones. Having the slight incline test track really helped determine if improvement was made, or if I needed to switch out the trucks.

All is well…

Mobilman44

16

Not to worry - the “Tool” does NOT enlarge the axle hole. It DOES ream away any molding flash in the hole, and contours it to NMRA specs. Reboxx wheelsets have very small needlepoint bearing surfaces, so if you use them, you will minimize any rolling friction left after cleaning out the journals. And if your track is within NMRA tolerances, the 0.088" wheel treads operate perfectly, look MUCH better than the “normal” 0.110" treads, and are particularly noticeable on open-end cars like hoppers and tank cars.

I’m just a fan of the Reboxx wheelsets, not associated with the company at all. [:)]

17

You could also try a short piece of fishing line stuck up right between the railheads kinda like a whisker just high enough to brush the axles of your rolling stock. Install by making a small hole between the railheads, insert a one inch piece of fishing line and add a drop of super glue at the base. Once the glue is set trim the fishing line to length.

Johnnny_reb

18

Gary:

MAY I DISAGREE? 1. ‘Reaming’ can easily go beyond “removing flash” in plastic journals.

  1. I have never found flash inside moulded concave pieces. HOW does it get there? - Outer ‘separation’ lines or Convex pieces, maybe.

PERHAPS some Engineers can explain this?

steemtrayn:A coal load adds ‘sprung’ weight. Replacing plastic with metal wheels gives you ‘unsprung’ weight, and lowers the center of gravity.