I’m working on designing a small shelf layout in my garage (been thinking about it and working at it off and on for a while now…)
It will be sort of a module-sized layout. I really want to have continuous running, so I’ve been planning on an unscenicked loop that is removable.
Unfortunately, I know that I don’t want to have to set up and remove the unscenicked loop all the time. It will get in the way of other things in the garage.
Another option for continuous running would be return loops at both ends. This is where the N guys have a huge advantage. In HO, a return loop takes up a LOT of garage real estate - similar to the space a Helix takes up, which the large-sized layout guys are always complaining about.
What’s worse it two return loops - one at either end. That REALLY eats up a lot of space.
So, I’m considering axe’ing the continuous running scheme. My module is planned to be 12ft long. I could easily add staging on each end of it - even having an entire leg of staging along another wall in the garage.
Then, I could possible have an auto-reversing unit continously change the direction of the train as it goes from one staging section to the other.
This is where the N scale crowd has a definite advantage. in N, you could have a shelf-width (i.e. 2ft wide or so) layout, AND have a return loop without a huge blob. Lucky guys!
Does anyone out there have a layout without continuous running who’s wishing they had it? Any regrets about not having it?
I have to keep my MRR’ing as something I can jump into for 5 or 10 minutes at a time - without a bunch of setup, etc. Eliminating continous running would enable this.
Does anyone have any alternative continuous running ideas
CARRfan, i know the problem you are haveing.[:(] both the layouts are in dads basement, the N"empire" is 8’x20’ and is DC, the HO switching layout is 2’x12’ and is DCC. the HO is the newest, and favorite one now because 1-easier for dad to work with now, and 2-its DCC, tons more fun. sure, switching is FUN, but there are times we sit there and BS, thats why i would like to put loops on the HO for continuous running, but just dont have the room. the only thing i could come up with is autoreversing, but in just 12’, thats not to much fun. cant just get rid of the N layout, its 90% complete, and we have a fortune in it. tough problem, guess i’ll just have to bite the bullet and be happy with it as is. i know i havent helped(sorry), but i feel your pain. you are definately right, in some ways, the N scale has it over HO.
I’m very interested in the responses. I’ve been procrastinating on starting my next layout. I can build either a 4x6+ (HO and HOn3) or 2 18in wide shelves in an L - one 96 in long, the other 80 in long.
From a “thinking how I would use it” and “how it will fit in the house” point of view, the shelf layout has it all over the 4x6. The shelf can be easily fitted with dust covers and lighting, both of which are real problems in my house. The 4x6 couldn’t get a dust cover, would be exposed to my kids’ friends, and rigging decent lighting will not be easy.
On the other hand, I have great difficulty giving up the continuous run option. I am very afraid I will get tired of having to go only a short distance, stop, reverse, repeat. When I am performing switching moves I do not get bored. But there are times when I just want to sit back and watch trains run without touching a control for 10-15 minutes. Also, I would like a continuous run for testing and breaking in my kit built locomotives and cars.
I have thought about having a 42in x 4-5ft test track that I can stand against a wall for my continuous running fix. But if I’m going to all that trouble to have continuous run, why not build a scenicked continuous run layout in the first place?
So I throw it out to the forum members - persuade me which is the better way.
Fred - I didn’t mention it in my initial post, but yes, Lighting and a dust cover will be way easier on a narrower layout.
I also want to have a complete “shadow box” type thing going on - where the layout is totally covered. It will be in the garage, and I won’t be refinishing the garage in our house just for model railroading. If this was our “final” house, I’d probably do it. You never know, we could be here for two decades, but I’d hate to redo the garage if we just end up moving in 2-3 years.
I want the layout to be its own little self-contained universe.
Wow. I’m deffinately the odd man out, here. I hate continueous running on a small layout. Watching the train run around on that little oval puts me to sleep. (not trying to be snarky. My parets picked me up off the floor on more than one occasion, after watching my little Tyco steamer navigate it’s oval of track for a while. I’m sure the effect would still be the same.) I’d only want continuous running, if the layout goes all the way around the room. That way one train can play the role of the various daily through freights that get in the way of the local crews’ carefully thought out manuevers. On a small layout that through train would be coming by way too often.
What can I say? I just want to do my switching, and get her back to the yard.
fwright, that L shaped layout sounds very much like the one I’d to build, someday. I want two foot deep shelves, so that the back six to eight inches can be used as hidden staging.
Fred brought up something I hand’t thought about. I assumed a loop for continuous running is also a necessity for burning in new locos. As Fred suggests, I could just build a 22" radius circle on a piece of plywood (heck, maybe even use sectional track for that) - that I could only whip out for locomotive burn-in, and for when the niece and nephew come by and I need to keep them constantly entertained. Hmmmm…
I find it interesting that when some of the “pros” of our hobby design small layouts, they don’t have continuous running. A few years ago in MRP, Michael Tylick, David Barrow, and Allen (I don’t want to butcher his last name by typing it incorrectly - you know, the V & O legend) came up with small layouts to fit in a bedroom. Both Michael Tylick and David Barrow didn’t have continuous running (Michael Tylick’s layout did have continuous running for a trolley only, but not the standard gauge).
Interesting Greyryder - yes, the “through freight” would be coming around quite often on my small layout. Maybe more often than is convenient as you point out.
Another benefit of purely shelf layout is that it’s easier for the thing to grow - much easier to aquire a few feet more of 2ft wide space than a space 4ft deep from the wall for a “blob” of return loop.
I could (similar to Fred’s thoughts above) design an L-shaped layout, with two very distinct scenes, and take up virtually no more effective space in the garage than I would with ony leg of the L plus a return loop.
Hey Greyryder - would you care to elaborate on you back six to eight inches of hidden staging? How would you get the trains out from back there? Maybe an “X-factor” as it’s come to be known type thing?
As in, say the “L” is made of a horizontal leg and a vertical leg. Does the staging behind the Horizontal leg connect to the Vertical leg, and the staging behind the Vertical leg connect to the Horizonta
That’s one way, to do it. You can also bring the trains through the backdrop on the leg, that you’re going to be using them on. I’m using a track plan from the October 94 issue of MR as a basis. It’s for a two foot deep 9x12 shelf layout, with a fairly simple L shaped staging track. The trains come out of staging a little bit away from the corners. It requires a little bit of a switchback to get to some of the spurs.
I can try to elaborate later, if you need. Rigt now the puppy is crying at me to take him out. Makes it kind of hard to concentrate on explanations.
How about a dogbone folded into a “C” shape around the garage walls. The protruding loops at the blob ends could be on a hinged dropleaf so they wouldn’t stick out more than the shelf portions of the layout. Set-up time would be … 30 seconds maybe?
One flexible approach could be to include a (hidden) double ended staging yard somewhere along the loop and the “cities” at either end of the staging represent the on-layout terminals. This allows the staging to service “both ends” of the line and trains arriving at staging are automatically ready for entry at the opposite end. Some of the staging tracks can be dedicated to empties-in, loads-out operations if it fits your theme.
The nice aspects of this are 1) you can run point-to-point as desired, 2) you only build one staging yard,and 3) the continuous run feature is there when you want it. [2c]
Alright - I looked into “dropleaf” blobs. Drew them up on the computer. For a 22" radius, with a 6" lead into the blob, it would be about 5-1/2 feet long. Keep in mind this “blob” is a teardrop shape, not just a diameter of 44".
(see pic below)
I was also playing around with loops going behind the layout - same problem. No good - still takes a lot of room, and you wouldn’t be able to reach behind the backdrop.
What a hassle!
It’s looking more and more like I’ll be living without continuous running, unless I want to infringe upon my other hobby space (drums), and that’s not too likely to happen!
I’ll likely do an L-shape, with staging at each end. I could basically then use 2 walls of my garage - a side wall, and the rear wall. The end of each L could be staging.
I could probably setup some sort of timing reversing circuit in place of return loops to give me that continuous running feel.
Then, as mentioned above, I could have a 3/4" sheet of plywood with a plain-jane circle on it for burning in Loco’s. Hey, it could even be a separate DCC programming track. Now I’m thinking! When I’m done with it, I hang it on the wall.
Best part about pure shelf and no blobs: It feels like it takes up practically no space in the garage. I already have existing shelving that will contain the majority of the layout.
How about using the loops behind the layout, and making anything behind the backdrop on a dropleaf? The layout would need to moveable so you could pull it away from the wall to operate, then lower the dropleaf and push it against the wall for storage. Remember to clear the staging yard before lowering it! [:D]
I think this would be ok for the layout as pictured, but probably not workable for a larger L shaped design.
I’m with you. With everything else going on in my house (and a fair chance of moving next summer), I’m leaning to the shelf layout. I do not want one with legs, but rather arrange so I can either hang it on the wall or set on top of furniture like bookcases or dressers.
Since layout must exist in one of the bedrooms, I’ll probably do a bookcase style (with flat bottom with felt pads), integral backdrop, lighting, and bookcase for roof. Also, will need a removable or hinged dust cover because current house has no air conditioning, and to keep layout from becoming tool and miscellaneous storage shelf during construction phase. Further benchwork requirement is light weight to keep 4ft sections mangeable.
For the portable continuous run, I will use similar construction to a Christmas 3 rail O layout I did (46in x 5ft) - 1x3 lumber frame with 1.5 inch foam base inside frame. For the O/O27 track I glued on 1/4 in plywood to hold track and accessory mounting screws - not necessary for HO. But if I leave off the plywood will probably increase foam to 2 inches thick to gain back the extra rigidity.
OK folks, I think I’m on to something for my situation here…
It’s basically a dogbone. I was trying to figure out how to get the track behind the backdrop ,but still be able to reach it.
So my compromise, instead, is that it’s supposed to be just a switching layout - that’s how it functions as somewhat prototypical.
Now if I want to let 'em run, I use the dogbone, and the train travels onto the back of the shelf - still visible.
It’s totally unrealistic for the train to double back on itself, but I could just use the loop when I’m not “operating”.
Another option would be to totally hide the rearmost track (the back half of the loop) inside buildings, behind scenery, etc. This would make it more of a hassle to access the trains, however.
I have to admit I think this is a great compromise. I have zero reversing loops (great for initially DC construction - easily converted to DCC), and no fancy electronics are required to run it.
It’s just a dogbone where I pretend the back half of the loop is an abandoned track until I want to let them run on the loop. I will probably bury the track of the back half of the loop in the street and beat up the street so that it looks abandoned.
Another thing I did was have the loops start a bit inside of the edges on the front of the layout - giving me a lot more length of layout within my space constraints (20ft long space in the garage).
I’m not sure how viable it would be, but it should be possible to hinge the corners and let them drop, then use a latch on the bottom to connect for use. This really should’t take more than half a minute for each side.
